'Secrets' - Acoustic Folk Fem - Violin Solo

studioviols

studioviols

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'Secrets' at : http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/studioviolsmusic.htm

This is Amelia Blake performing 'Secrets', (the guitar and vocal), in a Shreveport, Louisiana studio. I recieved the raw guitar and vocal tracks through the mail and they went into SONAR. I have modeled a MIDI string orchestration to back the song. In the solo section I perform the violin, (fiddle). I may duet that section with cello, or shift altogether to a cello solo there.

Her vocal is supposed to be 'UPFRONT'. She is the star, it's no secret ya know. She has 3 CD's out, this goes on the next one after I put all real strings on it.

We plan on performing together in March in Austin at SXSW venues.

Primarily I am concerned with the intonation in the violin section and the mix of the cello as it first solos, and then takes on the role of bass in the song.

How is the guitar ? She played it concentrating on the high notes, she wanted that 'tinkly' sound.

Does it sound 'Mastered' ? Or do you think it could sound ' a lot better ' ? I think it needs a bit of sparkle, and I'm going to experiment with OZONE 3.0 to further master it ... any suggestions ?
 
That's a beautiful piece of music.

The mix might need to change a little due to the lushness that the strings provide. If I understand this correctly, the original take is just one vocal and one guitar. That REALLY DRY vocal recording is gorgeous; Ryan Adams does tracks like this. But with the strings, the whole thing needs (*gulp*) a little bit of verb to glue it together.

That's a beautiful piece of music.

The Solo...Now, you should first understand that I know DICK about music, but I listen to a ton of folk music, so take it or leave it, lol... WITH the ultra-dry vocal and guitar, my ears are wanting this to be a rougher, higher pitched, lonesome fiddle sound...and not so strictly following the chord progression...but stuck right there in C? F maybe. I don't have a guitar right here, but whatever key it's in...stay there...There's a 7th in there...don't play it. I guess what I'm saying is, for THIS song, I wouldn't play the solo like it's a supporting device - stick it out there. This is hard for me to type, because the truth of the matter is that what you played is absolutely beautiful, and it's growing on me with each listen (although I think it resolves a tad too early)...But I tried really REALLY hard to think of how this would hit the artist the very first time she hears it...and the way it hit ME was that it was a little too on the polite side. I wish I could speak music like a musician, lol...but what I'm saying is 'FIDDLE IT UP RIGHT THERE!'

That's a beautiful piece of music.

All the backing strings are freaking gorgeous. INTONATION??? Like you'd send something out off pitch?? lol. dude, if there's a sour note in there, it got by me through about ten listens.

[edit]...I read your post again. So the backing strings are midi right now, but they're going to be recorded later? In addition to being musically ignorant, I'm also midi ignorant.

Record whatever you "midi'd," lol...it sounds great.


And yeah, I guess a cello solo could work nicely in the solo spot, but I'd REALLY like to hear you take a shot at the violin/fiddle first, lol.

I'm a pain in the ass...this is really a very very nice piece as is. Only an ultra-geek musician type like me would ever nit it like this, but She's one of us, eh? lol.

And I'd be really careful about mastering this. Like I said, it's gorgeous...if you had access to all the tracks, I'd say go for it, but I'd personally be scared shitless to slap reverb on the whole mix or throw any eq on it either. IT'S FINE, lol.

















(I wanted to be first here too, lmao!!) :D :D
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Pat,

Some very tasteful string patches ans cello work.:)

The intonation sounded spot on and kept in time with guitar part quite nicely.

You additions also helped to firm up the rhythm of the piece making it more structured and toe tap-able.

There was a nice degree of air on the string work and on the guitar but the vocal did seem a bit dry and almost a little too heavy in the 800hz range to my ear.

Give a little more ambiance to her voice via a small hall effect and stereo the real string work and all should be well.

The lack of a traditional bass guitar part on this song was not missed at all as your low string patch warmed up the bottom end nicely.

You are indeed getting better at your craft and I wish you much success with the live shows next year. I know this has been a major goal for you and I am glad to see a dream come to fruition.

Cheers! :)
 
Talented voice. I know you want it up front, but it's so far up front, that I have to strain to hear the back stuff, the chordal harmony is good and I'd like to hear it support the melody she's singing a little more, not much....

Her voice is great, but it sounds like I can hear a very small room around that mic. or a booth? With such a nice voice, I'd like to hear it either dryer or with a bigger reverb, is it dry now? you said you got it that way I figure it still is.

I'd say it's begging for some sparkle, But I have no idea how or what. I'd like to hear the final.
 
Hi Pat,

I'm glad to hear your latest. Nice work! Hopefully I can join the fray here after I complete my studio construction (in the basement...yippee!)

Anyway, first of all, this is a very good song. I know I don't need to tell you, but a good song makes the job sooo much easier - or at the very least more pleasurable (especially in a good violin key. Ha!)

The sound is fine! I agree with Chris too about the fear of mastering this.

I really dig the vocal being dry and although I can appreciate where others could hear a bit of verb added, I like the vocal's intimacy as it sits. Either could work. This kind of a song is like walking on eggshells in terms of production.

Strings are fine, although again (to me), this song's intamacy/honesty, nice guitar sound, and wonderful vocals, could carry the song without much else. Obviously when you get the real strings down, things will be different.

The violin line is good too, but I do wonder if a few hints of it could come before the ride - as well as playing a few carefully placed things after.

...I guess what it's coming down to with me is that I'm not sure I'm liking the string bed vs. the single fiddle work. Maybe a string quartet sound...a la "Yesterday" ...maybe?....Has Amelia given you a direction?

I wish I could make it down to SXSW to hear it live. That would be cool!

I'll look forward to hearing what happens!

GC
 
Wow - I'm finally getting around to checking this out. A very sweet song, the backing strings are very tastefully done. The violin solo was top-notch. Not much to add, sounds finished to my "not-so-great-at-mixing" ears.
 
chrisharris :
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Thanks for the insightful review.

This has been a very, challenging mix for me because it is right at my current level of sophistication as a mixing engineer. I'm dealing with four elements. Vocal, acoustic guitar, violin and the four string sections.

Long overdue direct thanks going out to that big nasty dragon whose website we call HOMErecording.com , thanks dragon, you are a true pioneer, your seed is sown into the fabric of the net further than you may know sir :D .
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Yes, the original take is only her vocal and guitar. I have the original, raw, resource tracks, they were extremely nominal, very poor levels.

When you hear the REAL string 'orchestra' tracks, they will be less lush, but much, much more beautifully musical. They are super lush right now, because I am learning to disguise samples, even continuous and lengthy use of samples, by using all manner of complicated combinations of reverb and carefully crafting levels beat by beat to duck in and out of her vocal levels.

I feel like if I had all the Miroslav string samples, and all the Sonic Implants good stuff, I could work up to a level where I could fool anybody. But when you A+B samples against real strings, it is always apparent as to which are the real strings ... now ... if you mix the best samples with good real strings ... now there's some hot shit !

I did use a very small amount of 'Mastering Reverb' and I think I will use a tiny touch more. But ... the artist is very, very sensitive to the use of reverb as she is intent on portraying what her vocal sounds like live. She is an active performer and does not want a 'studio voice'. She wants her fans to hear what they will hear live. I think it's a sound business practice, and I am honoring that.

Her live voice is very, very close to what you are hearing. She is a 'powerful' alto who ventures into a medium weight soprano. She has an edge on her voice that her fans adore, and I dare not lose that completely. Dealing effectively with her 'edge' is the art in this mix I am convinced.

Thus, it is extremely difficult to get a good 'mix', while retaining her comparitively dry and edge vocal. I am going to listen to some 'Ryan Adams', thanks for pointing to that artist, and I think I hear that 'rough and higher' violin you are talking about.

How I mixed the vocal :
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I made a clone of her vocal track and ran it through the soundforge 'smooth-enhance' filter at 3 units smooth. The 'smoothed' vocal leads, and the natural, super-dry vocal is mixed at about 40% of the volume as the smooth track. When her vocal levels peak ... as Ghost later says at around the 800Hz range ... she peaks really, really hard there. It's almost as if there is a burr in her voice, and that very well may be part of her tradmark sound developing. Those peaks shoot up into the smoothed track. Then I use several submixes of the vocal, adding compression along the way on each, and finally using both 'Mastering Compression' and some light touch of 'Mastering Reverb' on the bus that hosts the final mixdown.

I may now add an additional touch of reverb on the final file as I export. You'll have to coach me on that 'special Harris vocal reverb potion'.

I think it's the best 128kbps MP3 I've ever mixed, and it will still find some subtle improvement.

The vocal track was nominal and I had to boost the track a lot, therefore the vocal peaks came up the most ... as I said, it's been a real challenging mix.

Yes, the piece is in C, and you are absolutely right, the 7th of C, Bb, is totally off limits for the violin solo. I use B and Bb as a pivot throughout the string orchestration, so I don't touch it in the solo.

As to what role the violin has here, I must support here, it's a cameo only. She is the star, this is our first piece together. But I think I know more about what YOU want ;) .

I find it very gratifying that one of the best reviewers on the board, and one of our best songwriter's and musicians was fooled for one split second by my sample work ... oh what glee ! But I do have a psychological thing going on here, in that I actually play the instruments ... so I can be a sneaky bitch eh ? LOL !

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The Ghost of FM :
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The cello was also samples with a big load of tweaking, just wait till you hear the real cello !
Yes, this vocal is kicking my ass, it is a big challenge. I've got to get some feedback from her before I add any more wet to her vocal.

Thanks for listening closely to the bottom end. Just before the final bounce, I increased the cello track about 1/2 decibel just for good measure, and I'm glad I did. Thanks for keeping up with me.

I know you are a busy man right now during the holidays, and I wish you many, many big sales ! After the holidays, I will be expecting your attentions and feedback for the tracks I develop for 'Toronto, Toronto', the song is really growing on me, I find myself stopping off at odd websites to read about Toronto, it's a very unique part of the world ... ahem ... with very ecclectic people, reserved and mannerful ... but still freaky enough for my tastes ! :)

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jonplugged :
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The only thing that can persuade me to 'lower the vocal', which is the same as raising the backing track, is fan response, she has to hear it from her fans, and they adore her voice, so it's not likely ... but I hear you. I did add some small room verb to her voice, and there is a touch of 'Mastering Reverb' added to the final mix. You should have heard it before I added any verb, and mixed wet and dry vocal tracks of her 'smoothed' and dry. Ryan Adams would be running for the water fountain ! Thanks for the listening.

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gascap :
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Your studio is in my dreams ! Make them come true !

Oh yes, a good song makes it easy, but then of course the pressure is really on to make an even better performance. It's a lovely song, sung by a lovely lady.

I like the reference to eggshells, I have never felt 'trepidation' in a mix, I feel it here.

I have been sorely tempted to add some fills before the solo, but that's not our agreement, I'll have to get her confidence before I do that. She has a third CD recently released, so she's a very important collaborateur. She's the boss right now, and she and I are planning on performing in Austin.

Amelia is providing very little direction except for a final ... 'yeah it sounds good'. Amelia wants to remain a songwriter and artist and not spend very much energy on technical production, and I don't blame her.

I will be recording our SXSW live performance, it will get posted no matter how it turns out ... maybe under a different screen name ? :D

Thanks for the listen my fellow fiddler.
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lynx :
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Your humility will serve you well, namaste ! Yes it's a sweet song. Thanks for the listening.
 
Hi there,

Sounds really good. The arrangement you have made sounds real, adds a really good layer of depth and solidifies the guitar/vox into a combined unit.

In relation to mastering, there are definately some advantages to be had -- even if it is DIY using Ozone.

Look at trying to add some air into her voice -- it is very warm to my ears and I would like to hear more clarity, FWIW...

Your low strings did the job well enough for me filling in those bottom frequencies and you could probably allow a little more if you wanted.

It is a really pretty song and I think you have done a good job of making it more than the sum of it's parts.

Congrats!

:) Q.
 
us southeners down hea' in naw'lens, like that kinda' slow cooked sound too, real sweet

I wish I could add something, but I'll say only this

on first listen the vox stood out too much
but the second time around they sounded ok

good work
 
Qwerty :
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I think it's all about 'multi-band' compression, and Ozone 3 has a good one. Yep, I think I'll give the cellos about .5db boost. Thanks for the listening.

elephant :
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She's sweet like prawleen cayuhndee !
On the second listen ... ya fell in love with her ...
Thanks for the listening.
 
Pat said
" When you hear the REAL string 'orchestra' tracks, they will be less lush, but much, much more beautifully musical. They are super lush right now, because I am learning to disguise samples, even continuous and lengthy use of samples, by using all manner of complicated combinations of reverb and carefully crafting levels beat by beat to duck in and out of her vocal levels."

Toki says "excellent work... I`d hope to get mine that smooth."

Ken
 
Stu., wow, that's some accurate reverb to my ears. I could swear that was from the recording. Since I record in a small room, I'm sensitive to that sound. I guess I'll need to deaden it up some more and see what I get.

I'd like to find out more about reverb, the stuff in my MR8 is too inflexible for me....
 
Toki987 :
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Thanks for the listening and the positive encouragement. I owe you some listens buddy, I've had a few connection problems, thanks again for being so devoted to the board and the membership here.

jonplugged :
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My production theory, especially for violin, is dead, dry room and craft with software the best room you can around those basic tones and overtones. When I have four good violins, and learn some more stuff ... in about 2 years, I think I will be kicking ass. But I could never do it without folks on boards like these. Thanks for supporting the boards.
 
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