SDC upgrade from 603 suggestions?

S

santiu

Rock-scientist
I'm looking to upgrade/get a new pair of SDCs. I currently have a pair of MXL 603s and I'm not particularly happy with their performance as overheads. To me the lack some low end body that I like to hear in overheads and are a bit harsh. Currently i don't have any outboard pre-amps (I have a MOTU 828mkii).

So I'm looking at few options:
a) give my current 603 pair the "Ultimate MXL 603 Mod" treatment from Michael Joly (oktavamod.com). Pair this with a ~$400 pre (used RNP?)
b) get a pair of beyerdynamic MC930s, stick with MOTU preamps
c) get a new pair of Joly modded Octava MK-012, stick with MOTU preamps
d) something else?

thoughts, comments, recommendations and suggestions all very much appreciated :D Thanks!
 
santiu said:
I'm looking to upgrade/get a new pair of SDCs. I currently have a pair of MXL 603s and I'm not particularly happy with their performance as overheads. To me the lack some low end body that I like to hear in overheads and are a bit harsh.
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I offer capsule modification, which includes complete back chamber re-machining to address this specific problem. This modification rounds up the top end and brings the bass back, and the difference is not subtle. I will post some clips.

Best, M
 
i look forward to hearing those clips!

As for cymbals. I use a variety of Zildjian A, A custom, and K custom cymbals... whether or not they are quality is up for debate, but i think they sound pretty good.
 
Keep the 603s stock.

Use a separate LDC for a room mic, and phase align it with your snare. Compress to taste.

Send your MOTU to Black Lion for a mod - I think it made a subtle but significant improvement in the sound.
 
santiu said:
i look forward to hearing those clips!

As for cymbals. I use a variety of Zildjian A, A custom, and K custom cymbals... whether or not they are quality is up for debate, but i think they sound pretty good.
Click to expand...

You´re talking about quality cymbals... Almost any B20 alloy cymbal is usuable... but sometimes someone chimes in to say that the OHs sound harsh without realizing that most b8 cymbals sound pretty bad.

Sorry I can´t tell you much about the 603s... I´m using my Naiants and I´m pretty happy with them! :)
 
Marik said:
I offer capsule modification, which includes complete back chamber re-machining to address this specific problem. This modification rounds up the top end and brings the bass back, and the difference is not subtle. I will post some clips.

Best, M
Click to expand...

this post brought to you by Hormel...

1559606_340_1116081430036-spam.jpg



please spare me all the ensuing comments on the microphone genius of Marik and how helpful he is to the board
 
I'm a big fan of mic mods, and that's probably the route I'd go. In fact, that's the route I _did_ go. :)

I'm hung up on the desire to get more low end from the overheads, though. Supercreep's suggestion is a good one... try putting an LDC somewhere else in the room to complement the overheads. Try it facing the kick drum from 5-10' away. Or, put a figure-8 mic (LDC or ribbon) so the kit sits in the null, and the mic is hearing the ends of the room.

That said, the best low end I have ever gotten from OH mics was from a pair of LDCs in Omni mode. In my room, at least, the low end is not in front of the cardioid overhead mics... it's everywhere else. Flipping a pair of LDCs (these were CAD M179s) into omni mode brought out the low end like I'd never heard it. I have sound clips from this; it was part of an overhead mic shootout.

Lately I've been tempted (that word comes up a lot when I talk about microphones) by the new "hybrid" mic kit, the 3 Zigma CHI. It's a transformerless SDC body that has a variety of capsules, both small- and large-diaphragm -- not unlike the MK-012 in fact. It's pricier than the Oktavas; a matched pair of SDC cardioids will set you back $1300 or so. The cardioid cap was voiced as a compromise between the KM-84 and a Schoeps.

I think I just posted this same answer elsewhere a day ago, but it seems really true for me: the OH drum sound is probably more affected by the room and the drums than by the mics and pre's. In other words, unless you've already treated or tuned the room, you can probably get a better upgrade in your recorded sound via bass trapping and taming reflections in the room than by changing out the mics.

But then buy new mics afterwards, too, of course.
 
Gidge said:
please spare me all the ensuing comments on the microphone genius of Marik and how helpful he is to the board
Click to expand...
OK, how about -- dear OP: there's a guy, Marik, who has been modding the 603s. He worked on a tube mic I have and it's incredible now. I sent him my pair of 603s, and I can't wait to get them back. I understand that he'll be doing both an electronic and capsule modification, and seriously knows what he's doing.

He's active on the boards - you shouldn't have to look too far to find him :p

Alternatively, you can send them to Oktavamod (I've got a FDPE MK-319 which is awesome) or PM me a postal address and I'll mail you two fairly well matched polysomething 1000pf capacitors and 4 fairly well matched WIMA 1UF capacitors for free, so that you can perform a minimal electronics upgrade yourself :) -- I did it to mine, and they sounded much better afterward -- but I still sent them to Marik :D


edit: watch out for Hormel:
We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE, although we do object to the use of the word "spam" as a trademark and to the use of our product image in association with that term. Also, if the term is to be used, it should be used in all lower-case letters to distinguish it from our trademark SPAM, which should be used with all uppercase letters.
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http://www.spam.com/legal/spam/ :D
 
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Gidge said:
this post brought to you by Hormel...

1559606_340_1116081430036-spam.jpg



please spare me all the ensuing comments on the microphone genius of Marik and how helpful he is to the board
Click to expand...

:D:D:D

True! If you look back, in over 5 years on this board this is the second time I do it... mainly as a response to other spammers. I find it however little strange and amusing that you do not show this can to them.
So please, before start playing spam police stop be selective ;).

Best, M
 
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Thanks all for the comments... i think recordinghacks put things in perspective for me. I have the most god aweful room to record in. It's my living room, which happens to be a geodesic dome (read: essentially infinitely parallel walls). Luckily the room does have some dividing walls which help break up the space, and i've tried to put treatments up where i can (too hard to build to fit and mount on the dome walls, so they are more like gobos). But it'll be hard to ever make it a great room just by the nature of it's geometry.

I went ahead and ordered some new caps for the 603s which i'll put in and just live with for now until I move somewhere better to record (Although i didn't know about putting WIMAs 1uf, i only got some 0.22uf and 0.47s (didn't know if the 0.47s would fit, so i still got the .22s in case they didn't).

thanks a bunch guys :D
 
antichef said:
OK, how about -- dear OP: there's a guy, Marik, who has been modding the 603s. He worked on a tube mic I have and it's incredible now. I sent him my pair of 603s, and I can't wait to get them back. I understand that he'll be doing both an electronic and capsule modification, and seriously knows what he's doing.

He's active on the boards - you shouldn't have to look too far to find him :p

Alternatively, you can send them to Oktavamod (I've got a FDPE MK-319 which is awesome) or PM me a postal address and I'll mail you two fairly well matched polysomething 1000pf capacitors and 4 fairly well matched WIMA 1UF capacitors for free, so that you can perform a minimal electronics upgrade yourself :) -- I did it to mine, and they sounded much better afterward -- but I still sent them to Marik :D


edit: watch out for Hormel:

http://www.spam.com/legal/spam/ :D
Click to expand...

that works for me..:D:D:D
 
santiu said:
I went ahead and ordered some new caps for the 603s which i'll put in and just live with for now until I move somewhere better to record (Although i didn't know about putting WIMAs 1uf, i only got some 0.22uf and 0.47s (didn't know if the 0.47s would fit, so i still got the .22s in case they didn't).
Click to expand...
It was actually Marik's suggestion to use 1uFs -- here's a post where I took pics and recorded some samples:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=2974742#post2974742

(those are not WIMAs, obviously, but they're about the same size) -- I've done it a couple more times since then, and I put some shrink wrap on the long leads of the 1uF caps, to help prevent grounding. I'll send a little along with the caps.

(n.b. that Oktavamod has a published understandable policy of not accepting mics for modification that have been previously modified by someone else, including the owner, I think.)
 
We moderators have asked the board owners for clarification of the commercial use policy for situations like this, without offering our own recommendation. Until then, I am inclined to leave such posts alone, but I also ask that vendors exercise restraint.

Further public discussion may be found here:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=275189

Please note that when I started that thread, I was not a moderator, so if my views seem somewhat different now, that is the explanation.

Back to your regularly scheduled MXL603 programming . . .
 
I tend to be a big fan of the Oktava MK-012 (with or without mods). Compared with the Chinese condensers I used previously (probably similar to the 603 capsule), they have much better bass response, a much less brittle high end, and much better stereo imaging (probably in part because the pickup pattern is a fairly wide cardioid).

Right now, I'm working on swapping out all the caps on those cheap mics. Thus far, it seems to have opened up the sound somewhat. That said, it turns out to be hard to find silver mica or film caps with single digit pF ratings. :D

I guess the next thing to do after that is to remachine the capsules. Any tips?
 
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