S/PDIF recording vs. WAV exporting

I

incursio

New member
I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this - my DAW supports exporting tracks to WAV format. Would it be better (from a levels consistency perspective) to do that, rather than do direct recording from my DAW to my PC. If I do the latter, then (of course) I have to fool around with making sure I have proper levels when recording from the DAW into the PC. With the WAV export functionality, while much slower and more tedious, I don't have those worries. Thoughts?

Cheers.
Scott
 
A digital transfer via WAV files, or through a digital output (S/PDIF, but you have no S/PDIF in on your PC if I've been paying attention properly), is the preferred means of transfer. Otherwise your recording goes out through the D/A converters to an analog signal, then piped through the A/D converters on the PC's soundcard. Each of those two steps will involve some loss, though to be frank it's probably pretty slight. More of a problem is the risk of introducing some more noise into the equation while the signal is analog in the cables and susceptible to RF interference.

By the way, I think the term "DAW" (acronym for "digital audio workstation") is usually used to mean a computer audio system, either host-based or something like the Emu PARIS or ProTools... the VS boxes and such are usually called "MDM" ("modular digital multitrack") -- or is that term applied only to tape-based units like the Alesis and Tascam boxes? I don't know, the distinctions are all a bit blurry...
 
Al - thanks much for the response, although I think it would be helpful I clarified my question a bit.

My "DAW" is a Yamaha AW4416 - a standalone, all-in-one type of unit. I have the ability to export via .WAV, or mix down and send out via S/PDIF.

My question is:

If I do this via .WAV, I am ensured of my levels being consistent - right? The only downside is that it is tedious as hell. If I mixdown via S/PDIF, then I need to physically "record" via my PC's S/PDIF input - which brings up 2 problems for me: (1) consistency of levels - I need to make sure I record at a good level, and (2) latency - this is not the fastest PC in the world for real-time recording.

Cheers.
Scott
 
my DAW supports exporting tracks to WAV format
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You lucky b******! ;)

I have long wished the VS1680 could do that.

I think what you want to do depends on how critical the project is, certainly exporting a wav file is bit-for-bit an exact copy, whereas recording via the SPDIF into the PC's soundcard can introduce things such as jitter, quantization errors, etc., not to mention the fact the levels could most likely be somehwhat different, all depending on your chain from DAW to PC. Also another thing to consider is bit resolution of the DAW's SPDIF signal and your soundcard. You wouldn't want to truncate bits, i.e. 24 bits from your DAW to a 16 bit soundcard.

I transfer my mixes from VS1680 to the Dakota in my PC via optical SPDIF using WaveLab. It does allow me to compare levels very well.

Either way you decide, at least you have a choice!

Curt
Scream Sophie Music
 
CurtG said:


You lucky b******! ;)
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lol ... :D


Also another thing to consider is bit resolution of the DAW's SPDIF signal and your soundcard. You wouldn't want to truncate bits, i.e. 24 bits from your DAW to a 16 bit soundcard.
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Well, the S/PDIF I/O card I have on my PC does 24 bits, as does the AW4416 - so I'm in luck there.


I transfer my mixes from VS1680 to the Dakota in my PC via optical SPDIF using WaveLab. It does allow me to compare levels very well.
Click to expand...


I wish there were a way to use S/PDIF xfers that was "level-agnostic", like a bit copy or something. The only problem with exporting to WAV and moving them over that way, is that I go through a CD-R every time I want to move the song.... grrrrr.

Cheers.
Scott
 
The SPDIF transfer itself is level independent. However if you mess with the level on the sending side (like boosting with a master fader) then you can have a difference. Quantisation error is something happening at AD and DA, not in data transfer (unless you are using one of the infamous resampling cards) Jitter is also not to worry about as you are only transfering data in this case and not sending the data to a DA convertor.

Only the ease and time needed will be different. With SPDIF you are limited to real-time transfer (it will take as long to transfer as to play the parts). Also transfering multitrack info is more difficult. When using a CDR as transfer, you have a backup as well in the same time, think about that!
 
I agree that you don't really need to worry about jitter and what not via S/PDIF. If your computers soundcard will accept 24 bit, dither the digital output of the Yamaha to 24 and record at 24 bit on the PC. Then, you can dither with a better scheme like the one in the Wave's L1 Ultramaximizer or use Wavelab's dithering scheme. Either should work well, although I prefer the L1's over the Wavelab one.

As far as levels are concerned......Just make sure you are not getting any digital overs on the output of the Yamaha and get as hot of levels as you can to the PC. After that, you can use some plugin's, like again, the Wave's L1 to boost some more level without having digital overs.

Going the .wav route would be sort of silly if you already have the capability to get into your computer via a digital interface. No need to do that route at all. You will not get any higher of levels this way than outputting via the S/PDIF ports.

I would highly recommend that you DON'T use the Yamaha's dithering at any lower than 24 bit!!! Their 16 bit dithering is aweful.

Good luck.

Ed
 
Thanks for the feedback, all.

I guess what I was trying to avoid was having to fool with setting the recording level on the PC at all - why can't they just make a "magic button"? lol ...

Sonus - I am still exploring the dithering side of things - I know the AW4416 has a dithering alogorithm built-in, but I agree with you - this is task likely best suited for the PC/plugins.

Cheers.
Scott
 
If you are inputting via S/PDIF from the Yammie, you won't have to set any volume levels on the PC at all. If your software does have volume control for the digital in's, you can just leave it at full volume. S/PDIF is a digital transfer format, or protocol if you will, so if your meters on the Yammie are showing something, the PC should be recording that same level. So, if you don't have any digital overs from the output of the Yammie, you shouldn't have digital overs on the PC input either. Dig?

I was not able to find in my short search of the users manual anything about the dithering on that box, so who knows what the hell it does.

But yes, there is probably much better dithering available to 16 bit via software that the Yammies rather shabby DSP. At 24 bit, I am sure it is fine.

Ed
 
Ed, what about the Tascam TMD-1000?

I'm running a borrowed Mackie 1604-VLZ into the TMD. Then TDIFing out to a Soundscape Mixtreme and Nuendo. I then use the TMD when mixing down (via spdif) into Wavelab. Can you (or anyone else) see a problem with that (other than the AD conversion and latency the TMD is doing while tracking)?
 
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