running live sound and recording at the same time

T

Tony-bobs

New member
I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, move it if it doesn't fit here...

My brother and I are just starting planning for a bunch of outdoors shows we are hoping to set up this summer. Our plan is to run and record the event, and sell samplers of each show. Right now we are recording using a MOTU 8pre into Reaper on a laptop. I have two ideas on how to accomplish this:

1) Find a decent mixer that has outs for each channel and run those into the 8pre(and possibly an ada8000 if we need more ins) and just run the live sound from the mixer,

2) Get either the ada8000 or another MOTU firewire interface to make sure we have enough ins and use the main outs on the 8pre (or other interface) and run the sound using MOTU's CueMix software.

I have yet to really try the second route, hopefully I will be able to try it in a couple of days when my band tries to record something. I think this would be at the very least possible, if not terribly convenient. What do you guys think?
 
My personal opinion is to keep the live rig seperate from the recording rig. You know...the ol' "don't put all your eggs into one basket". But that's just me. I don't know much about the MOTU stuff, but if your laptop was to crash in the middle of a show, would the interface quit also, would you be able to mix by just using the 8pre?
 
Tony-bobs...

I have recorded live performances for the last 7 years. The band I do sound for is a Beatles tribute band. You can check out the results at "Songs" page at The Britins


I've done it a couple different ways. One way is using 2 'aux sends' on each channel as a L-R to do a live mix out to a CD recorder. It's ok, but you have to mix in headphones during the show with the PA blasting all around you. It can be done but it's kind of hit and miss.

The second, and better way I've found is tracking, then remixing. I had the direct outs on my Midas Venice 320 changed to be post-gain, post-insert, pre-eq, pre-fader. The direct outs go into an Alesis HD24 which I then transfer to a PC to remix.

The advantage of tracking is stuff can be replaced. If your lead guitarist plays a solo perfectly only to screw the pooch on the last 4 bars, you can replace it.

To hear examples of a live tracking, search You Tube for "Britins Beatles tribute" and look for "While my Guitar Gently Weeps", or "Penny Lane".


I've also just recently purchased a Zoom h4n. It works very well for an ambient recorder, but you need a quiet crowd - a sit down and listen show - to get really good results.
 
I just got the TASCAM M-164UF after Xmas, 16 channel USB mixer / audio interface @ 24/48
However, only ch. 1 to 10 are direct, then you get FX1&2, Sub Mix L+R, Stereo Mix L+R = 16 sent to PC + Stereo return
http://www.tascam.com/products/m-164uf;9,9,3744,14.html there is a short video 1:13 explaining all the features
paid $525 Canadian, Sweetwater lists it for $499 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M164UF​
I like how you can have Sub & Stereo mix happening independantly, which I use often, and you can even have "what you're recording, like a Amp Sim VST" not even be in the Live mix, but you hear it in the Return to Stereo Mix

I am using the latest Tascam drivers with Vista Home Premium 32 and getting 6.5ms latency
Forget about the install CD. and just DL the latest driver, period.
 
Use a mixer with direct outs and run them to the motu/interface(s). I'd never rely on a pc for live sound, if it crashes, the sound goes out and you're so screwed..... It's just a fragile setup, it introduces a BIG risk factor to a system that's otherwise extremely stable. It just isn't done, that'd be crazy.. Keep your live rig the typical PA, all hardware.
 
This depends on how many channels you will have if you want to multitrack. The best way in my opinion would be to get a transformer isolated splitter for all the mic sends. Send the direct to a multitrack. And send the split to the live console.
 
Thanks guys I'll look into the splitters. my first choice was to use two separate rigs. I just haven't really messed with cuemix enough to know if it's worth even having. thanks a ton!!
 
michaelst, great job on those recordings! the ones on youtube are fantastic. I'll look into setting something like this up as well.
 
thanks man...

the you tube stuff was tracked at the show that was taped. I mixed it down with N Tracks, edited with SoundForge 8, and 'mastered' with Ozone.
 
I used to record live(several outdoor shows) the thing we always used to get the drums sounding cool was an Alesis D4/DM5 you can buy em cheap now ,trigger (with mics) or triggers, the kick ,& toms but you can mic them too , the snare usually better off not triggered ,but miked pretty hot & gated , you can find out from most sound men in the 90s would do this,because the drums are a bit hard to put 7-16 mikes & still get them to sound good , ..just a live drum tip for recording
 
I've come to the conclusion after about ten years of running live sound and recording gigs that I must be stark raving mad to try and do both at once. Recording three or four tracks, sure. But the last time we tried to do a full band it was eight musicians, sixteen tracks, submix to a 8-track pro tools rig and two sound people - and it was still like playing three dimensional speed chess. I think if you're working sound as opposed to using the set and forget method, the last thing you need is the distraction of trying to monitor 8 or 12 live channels headed into a recording unit. Let a second set of ears handle that part...

just sayin.

Hell.. I'll prolly do the same damn thing again next gig. One of these days I'll have to think about following my own advice.
 
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