Roswell, Paul Carusoe and are there or are there not flying saucers..ahem. or UFO's?

[TAE]

I hate that this particular edition of V bulletin it won't freekin let you delete a post when you double post...damnit! see the post below for what I wanted to reply...

segue...into a commercial message brought to you by the sponsor of this thread (ME)

but WAIT! there's MORE!

if you're interested in the lyrics to Because by the Beatles you'll find them below........I'm playing with a version of this right now trying to pull it off with a TC Helicon harmonizer..... I'll post it in the show off thread if it's worth showing off

Because the world is round it turns me on
Because the world is round, ah

Because the wind is high it blows my mind
Because the wind is high, ah

Love is old, love is new
Love is all, love is you

Because the sky is blue, it makes me cry
Because the sky is blue, ah

Here is the recording

 

[TAE]

Answer the question of why something that happened in 2004 has only now become "irrefutable evidence" .

In particular, I want you to tell me what has changed about it between 2004 and now.

Well to be clear you will not find anywhere where I say that this particular incident is "irrefutable evidence" but no doubt VERY COMPELLING and should leave anyone reading it at minimum a bit curious...for certain it is not
a "refutable" incident.

That all said....since you DIDN'T read the article or watch the videos I'll splain.......nothing has changed since the incident occurred in 2004 except for one very minor detail...The video and the audio therein was top secret until December 16th 2017..

Before then the events and what went down were unofficially spoken about "off the record" but didn't exist within the military......

The U.S. government has not acknowledged that it has investigated a single UFO case that was unexpalinable since 1969 when they closed Project Blue Book, the U.S. Air Force’s last official UFO research project. On the weekend of December 16th 2017 The Department of Defense revealed that it has had a secret 22 million dollar UFO investigation operation going on since 2007 and then released this story and video publicly......It is a really big deal for the tin foil hat brigade keeping a pulse on this "dodgy" subject.

You've implied that you believe whatever it was it was man made or was a anomaly, the witness's were mistaken...this without reading any of the articles or videos and not single shred of evidence that it is man made ...

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't ......neither you or I or anyone else has undeniable evidence either way...Based on what I have read and seen I definitely would put my money on non human origin....and very real...Not saying it is from another planet, universe or dimension...whatever created this craft could be existing right under our noses...I don't have the slightest clue. I do know this ...this particular story carries a lot more credibility than 99% of the stories out there and it has to leave anyone with a scientific mind scratching their head going WTF?

Take 5 minutes and read the one article I posted about earlier that is on the Fighter sweep.com ( A military aviation website ) THIS IS THE ARTICLE it is written by a friend of one of the pilots in the incident...The article covers this incident much better than what you'll read in the paper and the comments following the article are at minimum entertaining and or enlightening in of themselves.

 

[kickingtone]

Well to be clear you will not find anywhere where I say that this particular incident is "irrefutable evidence" but no doubt VERY COMPELLING and should leave anyone reading it at minimum a bit curious...for certain it is not
a "refutable" incident.

Do you understand what you have just written?

"Not refutable" means "irrefutable"!

That all said....since you DIDN'T read the article or watch the videos I'll splain.......nothing has changed since the incident occurred in 2004 except for one very minor detail...The video and the audio therein was top secret until December 16th 2017..

I got that already. As I said before, the FACTS haven't changed. The points you highlighted as "very compelling" and "not refutable" didn't change.

So, explain why they were top secret then, but not now. What has or could have changed to make them not worthy of being top secret any more?

The U.S. government has not acknowledged that it has investigated a single UFO case that was unexpalinable since 1969 when they closed Project Blue Book, the U.S. Air Force’s last official UFO research project. On the weekend of December 16th 2017 The Department of Defense revealed that it has had a secret 22 million dollar UFO investigation operation going on since 2007 and then released this story and video publicly......It is a really big deal for the tin foil hat brigade keeping a pulse on this "dodgy" subject.

The subject isn't "dodgy". What you have described is dodgy behaviour by your "VERY credible source", as you call it.

So, as I have said, I would like you to explain why you credit so strongly a source that was refusing to acknowledge facts.

You've implied that you believe whatever it was it was man made or was a anomaly, the witness's were mistaken...this without reading any of the articles or videos and not single shred of evidence that it is man made ...

All I said is that the examples you cited can be explained by man-made technology. I presume these were your best examples, so I don't have to plough through videos of such weak "evidence". If you have better examples that would indicate that watching the videos is worthwhile, then cite them.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't ......neither you or I or anyone else has undeniable evidence either way...Based on what I have read and seen I definitely would put my money on non human origin....and very real...Not saying it is from another planet, universe or dimension...whatever created this craft could be existing right under our noses...I don't have the slightest clue. I do know this ...this particular story carries a lot more credibility than 99% of the stories out there and it has to leave anyone with a scientific mind scratching their head going WTF?

Take 5 minutes and read the one article I posted about earlier that is on the Fighter sweep.com ( A military aviation website ) THIS IS THE ARTICLE it is written by a friend of one of the pilots in the incident...The article covers this incident much better than what you'll read in the paper and the comments following the article are at minimum entertaining and or enlightening in of themselves.

That junk article is precisely why I don't like wasting time on reading them. If you are convinced by such comics, you need to ask yourself why. Strip away all the nonsense, and what you are left with is some sea froth and some radar signals. Signals can travel at all kinds of crazy speeds and zig-zag wildly. Equally wild is the way the article jumps from reporting signals -- radar and light -- to reporting "AAVs". It is junk journalism that is not worthy of the slightest scientific respectability. It won't leave any scientist worthy of the name scratching his head. It is junk.

 

[TAE]

That junk article is precisely why I

Did you read the article?

 

[TAE]

And in rergards to Refutable...Yeah I know what I wrote...If you have a problem with that it is your problem...

refutable 1. to prove to be false or erroneous, as an opinion or charge

I said for certain it is not a "refutable" incident. It isn't Irrefutable and refutable are two different words of which irrefutable is a stronger more "beyond a shadow of a doubt" statement than just using refutable. What I was trying to convey ( in which you decided to ignore, and instead play grammar policeman) was that I never said it was irrefutable evidence at this juncture it is not something that can be proven refutable either....

 

[kickingtone]

And in rergards to Refutable...Yeah I know what I wrote...If you have a problem with that it is your problem...

refutable 1. to prove to be false or erroneous, as an opinion or charge

I said for certain it is not a "refutable" incident. It isn't Irrefutable and refutable are two different words of which irrefutable is a stronger more "beyond a shadow of a doubt" statement than just using refutable. What I was trying to convey ( in which you decided to ignore, and instead play grammar policeman) was that I never said it was irrefutable evidence at this juncture it is not something that can be proven refutable either....

Don't roll your eyes, dude. Your English is piss poor if you don't realize that refutable and irrefutable mean the opposite thing. They are not different degrees of the same thing. They have opposite meanings! You clearly have little familiarity with any serious scientific research if you don't know what these words mean.

As for your definition, you even have a mismatch in the part of speech. "Refutable" is an adjective, but you have defined a verb.

Dude, I'm getting a picture about whom I am "debating" with. Don't use words that you don't understand, and then blame the person you are addressing.

 

[Mick Doobie]

I think what TAE is saying, simply, it is not refutable that the incident actually happened, even though the incident isn't irrefutable evidence of ET origin.

I'm pretty sure i've read somewhere, in some circles they have dubbed it the "tic-tac", given its shape. It has been spotted on more than one occasion....they say.

Carry on.

 

[kickingtone]

I think what TAE is saying, simply, it is not refutable that the incident actually happened, even though the incident isn't irrefutable evidence of ET origin.

I'm pretty sure i've read somewhere, in some circles they have dubbed it the "tic-tac", given its shape. It has been spotted on more than one occasion....they say.

Carry on.

Let us not sugarcoat anything. It is not what he said. Read his comparison of the words "refutable" and "irrefutable" in his last post.

He may have meant what you have suggested, but I am not sure of that. If he is saying that the incidents happened as he described AND...

...the craft these VERY credible sources around the world have witnessed are beyond the scope of anything we can even dream of, yet alone create at this place and space in time...craft maneuvering at 7,000 to 8,000 mph and pulling of 90 degree turns almost instantly....mmmmm probably not something we super eathlings can pull off...

Then he is implying that the origin is extraterrestrial, even if he then adds an ambivalent bit of rhetoric at the end.

You say that he claims that the incident is irrefutable, and we can see that he categorically states that the facts point to something "we can't even dream of in this space and time". That is a categorical claim that an incident of extraterrestrial origin has occurred.

I am not interested in pursuing grammar. All I want is a consistent position posited, without rhetoric or obfuscation. What is he saying?

 

[TAE]

So Yeah Mick is dead on as to what I was implying but for some reason you couldn't wrap your whippy head around it. Rather you decided to try and expound upon your superior grasp of the english language. Of which in your chest beating you made multiple mistakes including stating that refutable is only an adjective...error google it Einstein...

In regards to

Then he is implying that the origin is extraterrestrial, even if he then adds an ambivalent bit of rhetoric at the end.

Ambivalent bit of rhetoric

Based on what I have read and seen I definitely would put my money on non human origin....and very real...Not saying it is from another planet, universe or dimension...whatever created this craft could be existing right under our noses...I don't have the slightest clue. I do know this ...this particular story carries a lot more credibility than 99% of the stories out there and it has to leave anyone with a scientific mind scratching their head going WTF?

Yeah that's some ambivalent rhetorical diabolical shit there...

 

[Mick Doobie]

I am not interested in pursuing grammar. All I want is a consistent position posited, without rhetoric or obfuscation. What is he saying?

Pardon my grammar, and I don't mean to speak for TAE, but maybe possibly he is saying...

Some shit happened, the government has released to the public formally secret information they have collected of shit happening, more and more people who do not fit the profile of the usual suspects who believe in shit happening have come to believe shit is happening, it is quite possible or perhaps even certain that shit is happening?...something like that?

People are free to determine their own opinion. A believer, or not, it could be a fun and interesting topic.

When did science become a religion where the heretics are subject to just shy of the Torquemada treatment?

(bigfoot is real, I seent it )

 

[TAE]

Pardon my grammar, and I don't mean to speak for TAE, but maybe possibly he is saying...

Some shit happened, the government has released to the public formally secret information they have collected of shit happening, more and more people who do not fit the profile of the usual suspects who believe in shit happening have come to believe shit is happening, it is quite possible or perhaps even certain that shit is happening?...something like that?

People are free to determine their own opinion. A believer, or not, it could be a fun and interesting topic.

When did science become a religion where the heretics are subject to just shy of the Torquemada treatment?

(bigfoot is real, I seent it )

Thank You For This Useful Post!

 

[Mick Doobie]

(bigfoot is real, I seent it )

Dude, anecdotal, don't count.

 

[kickingtone]

Pardon my grammar, and I don't mean to speak for TAE, but maybe possibly he is saying...

Some shit happened, the government has released to the public formally secret information they have collected of shit happening, more and more people who do not fit the profile of the usual suspects who believe in shit happening have come to believe shit is happening, it is quite possible or perhaps even certain that shit is happening?...something like that?

People are free to determine their own opinion. A believer, or not, it could be a fun and interesting topic.

When did science become a religion where the heretics are subject to just shy of the Torquemada treatment?

(bigfoot is real, I seent it )

Since he is unable to articulate his point competently, I have little idea of what he is actually saying.

If you have an opinion yourself, why not own up to it, instead of hiding behind/protecting TAE's rather confused mishmash of an opinion?

As long as you don't go swapping "refutable" and "irrefutable", can actually understand what a dictionary definition says, and you actually bother to read the points I have made, we should be good to actually discuss something meaningful.

 

[Mick Doobie]

lol Why express it as a challenge? You could just ask.

I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. Subject doesn't really interest me too terribly much. Maybe i'm a bit head in the sand about it. I'm pretty much, if they're out there, i'm comfortable they stay off our rock we stay off theirs. Context, man. Everybody knows i'm a right wing xenophobe.

Truth, I read some of the points you made, but not enough to determine true ratio of meaningful to mean. Might have read more, but. Don't be mean, friend, it ain't all that. TAE is a nice guy, he doesn't have a history of causing any trouble for anybody.

Sorry, didn't mean to sermonize, just sayin'.

Carry on.

 

[Mick Doobie]

^ This

 

[kickingtone]

Since I am bored...
You like challenges, yeah?

You'd better go and discuss with, and ingratiate, your "nice friend" and like each other's posts. I deal with facts, not bored people. I deal with people who can take and pose CHALLENGING questions, look up facts, (even grammar when necessary for clarity) etc. and be honest about their mistakes, without getting offended. Yes, and I prefer to discuss with people who can use the emoticon, so long as they can take what comes back the other way.

It was TAE who made it all about grammar. He could simply have rephrased his point, using words he actually understands, instead of pretending that opposite words mean roughly the same thing. Then it becomes about grammar, because, unless he is at least willing to correct any ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL mistakes quickly and make himself clear, the discussion becomes a confusing waste of time, with you backing him up based on how nice he is.

Right now it's he-said-you-said-he-said the incident was irrefutable but extraterrestrial origin is not. Yet, it is several posts since I pointed out that he also said that the incident could not have been anything created by mankind even in our dreams. But both of you are too busy massaging each other's feelings to iron out your contradictions and take the thing forward so we can forget about grammar incidents and untangling what you are actually trying to say.

And I find your passive aggressive sermonizing nauseating, insincere and creepy, actually. Last post to you.

 

[TAE]

OK Enough of this shit!

KT I don't know you and you don't know me.

You came into this post pretty decently but dude you went very south after I pointed out that unless you actually read the articles and videos I presented your opinions are of no value to the conversation...Rather than take the time to read the articles or watch the videos and then express an informed opinion you chose to try and defend your position with negative derogatory comments, insults, assumptions and unsupported personal opinions. Basically you're being kind of dick and this "debate" you seem to want to relish in is not something that either side can win. I am not saying I didn't buy into the insult game and start going south myself right back at you but I'm done. Sorry for going there and lets just leave it at you and I disagree on this matter.

 

[Mick Doobie]

You better....

And I find your passive aggressive sermonizing nauseating, insincere and creepy, actually. Last post to you.

I ain't better do shit.



You didn't want to quote the post I edited in its entirety? You evidently were able to read it before editing.

No need to get your ass all up on your shoulders because you were proven wrong. You were proven wrong, and that is a fact, a fact apparently you aren't dealing with very well. Like the man said, number one rule don't be a dick. Humility has its place, it's okay to admit you were wrong.

One man's passive aggressive is another man's attempt at being a gentleman. I failed, gutted. Pardon, my fine sir. With all the elbow swinging, I had no idea of your sensitive nature.

Have a good one, man. I'll be away for a few days. So,...

Happy New Year, guys!

 

[kickingtone]

OK Enough of this shit!

KT I don't know you and you don't know me.

You came into this post pretty decently but dude you went very south after I pointed out that unless you actually read the articles and videos I presented your opinions are of no value to the conversation...Rather than take the time to read the articles or watch the videos and then express an informed opinion you chose to try and defend your position with negative derogatory comments, insults, assumptions and unsupported personal opinions.

I could also give you a long boring reading list to complete and claim that your opinions are irrelevant until you have done so. I think that you would be within your rights to say, "No, unless you can give me a specific example of what could change my mind."

Asking you to read endlessly and aimlessly the same old tripe is a poor debating tactic, and a waste of time for me.

The only difference you have suggested is that, although the facts are of the same old boring type we have read of endlessly over the years, certain people you look up to are only NOW rubber stamping them.

I have said that I am only interested in actual facts, not personalities. So I am not going to wade through you videos to find out who said what. That won't change my position, because I don't credit personalities the way you do. Beating on about watching the videos is pointless and illogical.

In the same way, if a Christian told me to read the Bible from end to end before making up my mind, I would tell them to get lost. It doesn't work that way. If he is able to properly address (with further references, if needed) any initial concerns I have from the little I have read, then of course I am good to investigate, and it would be a basis to continue. But if he gets stuck and can only come up with some blanket arm-waving "read more" approach, then I will say no, what is the difference between what he is asking and the hundreds of other people who would like me to "read this" on a thousand of other subjects.

Basically you're being kind of dick and this "debate"...

Well, you are a hypocrite. I'm actually cool with personal criticism, if it is a genuine attempt at being relevant. I am cool with banter and use of the emoticon etc. too. Difference is, I don't do it and complain about it at the same time. I focus on facts, not feelings, personalities, and such nonsense. Facts!

 

[kickingtone]

So, lets get back to the sticking point.

Trying to untangle your point, TAE, you appear to be saying...

It is INDISPUTABLE that observations have been made of "craft" moving at several thousands of miles per hour and changing direction almost instantaneously.

That the observations happened you say is INDISPUTABLE.

Is the impossibility of a man-made craft moving in such a fashion also an INDISPUTABLE fact, or have you now changed your mind, and think that man-made craft may be capable of such motion?

If you have not changed your mind, then your claim remains that it is INDISPUTABLE that extraterrestrial events happened.

Is that clear enough? Maybe we can focus on the debate and stop getting sidetracked by "feelings".