rode ntg2 av shure sm7b background noise

J

john225

New member
Hello , I am fairly new to recording narrations.
I use scarlett 2i2 3rd gen and a zoom h5 and I have 2 mics rode ntg2 and shure sm7b and a cloudlifter for shure mic.
I am not trying to produce studio quality profesional narrations but mostly stuff that is ok for youtube.

I just bought a shure because of all the youtubers podcasters claming it doesn't pick up much of the bacground noise which is sometime a problem in my place.

I use shure about 4" from my mouth as well as rode mic.
I can say that shure mic picks up a bit less of batckground noise then rode mic but not by a lot. maybe 20% improvement.
People who do reviews are claiming that it doesn't pick up barking dogs or even kids playing in the other room or construction noises , sirens etc.
Both of the mics pick them up .

I tried to position shure mic with the back of the mic facing towards the noise which helps a bit.
I tried to lower the gain which might be helping a bit.

I know how to fix the audio in daw to get rid of some of the noises but I am little bit disapointed or maybe I had too big expectations.
Also some youtubers are claiming that you don't have to treat your room with sm7b which isn't true .

Both rode and shure sounds equally bad in untreated rooms

Am I doing something wrong ? My room is treated but not soundproofed and those noises from the outside are a bit problem.
I could possibly return the sm7b and get something else

Thank you for your help.
 
Hello John and welcome. Sorry to tell you that yes, you are doing something a bit wrongly. Four inches is about three too many from a 7b* or indeed any dynamic mic ESPECIALLY if you have 'noises off' problems. These sorts of microphones do not have any special 'magic' that rejects external noise it is simple a function of the ration of the distance between the sound source and the noise. Thus you see rock stars practically eating mics!
So, get the 7b much closer to cake receptacle, practically touching lips is fine as the actual diaphragm in that mic is set back some distance from the front grill. Next. REDUCE interface gain! This is key and you might even find you don't need the cascade booster.

Time of day: Or more particularly very late/early morning! Record when the world and its dogs are asleep. My son used to record acoustic guitar from about midnight to 2am and I live in a leafy, very quiet suburb (NN5 5PF)

Now, this next bit you are NOT going to like! I have a $30 Sennheiser headset with a noise cancelling mic and IMHO it give very acceptable vocal quality? Admittedly I only use it for Skype but it sounds good to me. Return the SM7b? Depends, are you ever likely to be in a quiet place and have need of its undisputed quality? If not, use the cash for something else.

*I don't own a 7b but I read a lot!

Dave.
 
Hi John,
Dave's got it ^.
Usually when people say X mic is better than Y mic for background noise, they don't mean like for like and this can be misleading.
Broadly speaking your Shure 'hears' the same thing as your Rode does.
The main difference is that your Shure is a dynamic mic and should be more forgiving with very close work.

Setting aside soundproofing etc, the battle you're fighting is signal to noise.
Your voice is signal, and the dogs and sirens are the noise.
You want to increase that ratio which means make the noise quieter, or the signal louder.
The simplest way you can achieve this is to talk/sing louder, or move closer to the mic,
the same way that talking right into someone's ear is more effective than talking to them at 2 meters in a room with a loud crowd.

Turning up, or down, the gain won't make any difference to your signal to noise ratio on its own, but turning down the gain and speaking louder or turning down the gain and getting closer to the microphone will.
You end up with the same level of recorded signal, but lower noise.
Turning down the gain was just a necessary step because you made your signal louder (closer), relative to the noise.
Hope that helps.
 
You are are very kind Mr S and so it is with some reluctance I must disagree slightly with you point about gain?
Bit pedantic but. The reason large capacitor mics are said to "hear every 'kng thing" is because thyey have an innate 'gain' of 20dB or more over dynamic types. They are therefore not suited to very close work as 1) they or/and the preamp will overload and 2) they are not designed for close work and will 'pop' very badly.

Therefore I say that close working and reduced gain must go hand in hand.. (to be REALLY pedantic! Reducing pre amp gain will reduce electronic noise)

Dave.
 
I don't think we disagree, Dave.
I just meant to clarify that turning the gain down, on its own, does nothing for the signal to noise ratio.
Turning the gain down a bit is the often necessary step that lets you perform louder, and/or get closer to the mic, which does improve your signal to noise.

*by signal to noise, in this case, I mean voice vs background sounds.
 
Steenamaroo said:
I don't think we disagree, Dave.
I just meant to clarify that turning the gain down, on its own, does nothing for the signal to noise ratio.
Turning the gain down a bit is the often necessary step that lets you perform louder, and/or get closer to the mic, which does improve your signal to noise.

*by signal to noise, in this case, I mean voice vs background sounds.
Click to expand...
Yup. We cool.

Dave.
 
Loads of podcasters have no idea at all about how mics work and believe this magic exists!

Everyone has given solid advice - the important thing is the polar pattern of a mic. With a cardioid, like most are, looking from above, it's a kind of heart shaped pattern, with an area of least pickup at the back, gradually increasing at the side until the most sensitive area is facing you. noises from the rear are greatly reduced, those form the side less so. A hyper-cardioid or super-cardioid is more forward looking with less sensitivity at the sides - in effect it's like using a zoom on a camera. With it on wide angle (the cardioid) you see all sorts of stuff at the edge. Zoom in and those distracting things vanish. If you use the most commonly available really directional mic - a shotgun, it picks up even less at the sides - BUT - and it's important - you need to aim the damn things at your mouth, not the wall behind you.

Everyone has mentioned getting closer. The reason is a weird one. If you have a mic a foot away from a mouth, and then move it to 6" it doesn't double in volume, it quadruples! So small movements work for you - it's always a fight between wanted and unwanted sound. Signal to noise. Move in close on most cardioids and your voice gets darker, warmer, bossier, more mellow - those kinds of words. Mics like SM7Bs and RE20s don't. If you move in closer the tone of your voice stays pretty well the same.

With your cloud lifter, the SM7B is usable at 6", allowing a bit more movement. All the mics will reduce other unwanted noises, used close - but they will all sound quite bassy - bar the SM7B. turning the gain up or down does not change the wanted to unwanted ratio - so the dogs get quieter, but so does your voice.

Being very honest - I'm lucky enough to have lots of mics. I don't like the SM7B. It's too big and too heavy, but it sounds fine, and your lips can touch the foam and be wind and pop free.

I'm not certain the SM7B is actually clever and contains anything special to do this, because inside is a very similar capsule to the SM58 and SM57 in appearance - but there's a metal tube full of holes that means that even when your lips touch the front - they're actually at least 2" from the capsule, so an SM57 with a foam windshield could work nearly as well.

With video important, the look is part of the deal. If you can't get the room quiet - then the mic has to be close. There isn't really anything else you can do. SM7Bs are everywhere on YouTube, including the guy the other day who clearly thought you spoke into the side, as the mic was pointing upwards. Interestingly his audio was bright and clear - and when I looked carefully, he had a small lav mic clipped to his shirt - and that was clearly what we were hearing and the SM7B was a prop!
 
There are magic mics Rob! Well sort of, they use a the 'out of phase' principle* where you have two, preferably identical, mics taped together but one has its polarity reversed. Thus, any sound coming from more than a few inches away causes virtually the same signal to be generated but since they are OOP they almost cancel. Sounds very close to one capsule do not. You used to see these very commonly at pop festivals. Problem is that the sound quality suffers but if you just NEED TO BE HEARD they are great.

Note about hyper cardioids? They have spurious acceptance lobes at the rear, two of them 120dgrs iirc from the centre line.

*I have simplified greatly of course and there are other forms of noise canceling microphones including the Reslo beloved of F1 pit reporters (go! go! GO!) Some of the math is also well above MY pay grade!

Dave.
 
I saw many 57s and 545s taped together and read about the craftiness of the noise cancelling - until on one event I mentioned it to a colleague and he laughed at me. He then just said...... We didn't have mic splits then, so one mic went to PA and the other to the recording truck.
 
rob aylestone said:
I saw many 57s and 545s taped together and read about the craftiness of the noise cancelling - until on one event I mentioned it to a colleague and he laughed at me. He then just said...... We didn't have mic splits then, so one mic went to PA and the other to the recording truck.
Click to expand...
Ah, a possible alternative use but many I have seen taped the mics nose to tail so they surely did not want dual pickup?

Dave.
 
Nose to tail? Never seen that - I suppose that would work on paper, but surely just captures more from the audience and you don't want any?
 
rob aylestone said:
I'm not certain the SM7B is actually clever and contains anything special to do this, because inside is a very similar capsule to the SM58 and SM57 in appearance - but there's a metal tube full of holes that means that even when your lips touch the front - they're actually at least 2" from the capsule, so an SM57 with a foam windshield could work nearly as well.
Click to expand...

Quite right. There's no magic with the SM7B but, as you say, with your lips on the grill, or foam, you're still an inch or two from the capsule.
The Re20 does have magic (Variable-D?) to reduce proximity effect, as a lot of other EV mics do, but SM7B does not.
 
Hey Rob, I thought you found you didn't dislike the sm7b after using a cloudlifter thing? You still not a fan?
 
Hello,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble with background noise. I'm not familiar with the specific gear that you're using, but hopefully some of the other forum members can help. One thing you might try is recording in a quieter environment if possible. Also, make sure your microphone is as close to your mouth as possible when recording.
--
Jason Hook. Audio Enthusiast and Software Developer
Remove or Isolate Vocals from any Song 👉 https://www.UnMixIt.com/
 
Jimmy - I stuck it on a stand in the video studio, and didn't put it away, so I've grabbed it for a few little jobs, and my conclusion is that with the preamp - I can use it just like any other mic, and with lips on the foam - there are no pops or blasts and the tone doesn't need any work. So to use one little job as an example - it was the names of people in a production, that was my voice, played in at the end of a show. One person was no longer involved so the job was to take the track, delete the missing person and add a new one. The original was probably 3 months ago and I can't remember what I used to record it - probably an AKG 414. I could have gone back to the studio, but as I was in the video studio - a mile away, I figured I'd record the insert there - it took only a few minutes to gently tweak the EQ and it matched fine.

I just can't get excited by it - but I'm going to keep using it I don't think it's a bad mic - just a boring one.
 
Thank you everyone for your help.
So I followed your advise and talking louder and much, much closer and reducing gain made a lot of difference.

I must say that shure picks up much less noise then ntg2 .
My neigbor is doing bathroom remodeling and shure didn't picked up the drilling but ntg2 did.
Ntg2 picks up mouse clicks and shure doesn't.

I 've got used to ntg2 voice and I would actually have no problem using it if I had quite place.
I think that ntg2 sounds a bit nicer then shure mic for narrations.

But I still didn't do any work in post only compered unprocessed audio
 
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