Rode NT3, AKG C1000S, AT3728, -ACOUSTIC GUITAR

G

gcounselman

New member
Hello all,

I own two Breedlove acoustic guitars. I am currently using an AT4033 large diaphragm microphone and am not happy with the sound I get when micing my guitar. It seems to produce an almost "boxy" sound (for lack of better word). The mic is great for vocals. I have tried several different placements and am starting to feel that I ought to find an excellent mic for just acoustic guitars. A friend of mine owns an AKG 460. I have heard that the 460 is the bomb. However, I have looked everywhere and have not been able to find one to buy anywhere. I also have not been able to find a price on one.

So I am now looking at different condenser mics. I am torn. There are several mics in the $200 range(I am not limited to $200) that I am looking at: AKG C1000S, Rode NT3, and the AT AT3728. Has anyone ever used these mics for acoustic guitars and if so what are your opinions on them. My AT4033 just isn't doing it for me. I am looking for a really clean, crisp, and warm sound.

Thanks a lot,
-galen
 
gcounselman,

Definitely the Rode over the AKG...not sure about the AT however, have never a-b'd with the NT3.

BW
 
I love the NT3 on my 25 yr old Guild.

I use it with a CAD large diaphram unit.

Try both out. You will be happy with the combination I think.
Bridge with the AT and off the 12th frett with the NT3 or so at an angle toward the frettboard. Don't get in to close with the AT unit. That will bring you the boxy sound.
Hope this helps........
 
Ur, well for what it's worth i have an AT 4033 running through a Mindprint En-voice and i wouldn't say it sucks for acoustic guitar but it's less than perfect. I get the most natural sound by aiming AKG C1000S at 12th fret on cheap-ass Sigma acoustic and going through normal pre amp. Unfortunately cannot sing at same time as vocal off axis response it terrible with AKG and my voice bleeds over and sounds like some kind of goose honking. Interestingly enough the AT4033/En-voice combination is the only thing i have came across that reproduces steel body resonator sound accurately(miked from 4 feet away with gain turned up) If i sing at same time i use NT1/AT4033 combo.
 
Funny you should mention.....I too use the Mindprint Envoice and am very happy with it.

At first it is not a dial in quick and go for it unit. It is very articulate though. The sound is very transparent and pro quality. I also use the MP by ART and find it's a little noisy at higher levels but great for bass or electic guitar.

If you use the Mindprint for your large condensor (NT1)for bridge and go direct with the AKG1000 (on the neck)to the mixer, record and you will have a better tweaking arrangement after is it recorded. It doesn't say that you have tried it yet so...

the AKG C1000 is about the same as the NT3 Rode. It's a great mic for the neck. You can even mix in a little pickup if you want to hekp with the treble sounds.
Then use the 4033 for your vocals. If you want an off the floor complete recording.
 
again, funny you should mention it, but i use the Rode-envoice-bridge/AKG-12th fret combo for acoustic and it sounds great for the finger picking that i do. Sounds as good as a $350 guitar can sound. Just can't sing at the same time because of the AKG and that takes away a lot of the "feel" of a complicated guitar/vocal song. If i do guitar/vocal i use single Rode/4033. The en-voice was the best $500 i have spent lately. I wonder why AT 4033 sounds so good on vocals and not so good on acoustic guitar? Probably because it was designed as a vocal mike? Hey! I answered my own stupid question.
 
Once you get into using the Envoice you will make anything sound good.

Try recording the guitar with just the mic pre on, nothing else.

Then patch the recorded signal out to the Envoice line in and tweak your guitar until you fall over in ecstacy.

Write the settings down and return to them when ever you record the guitar again. That's what I do.
 
What is this Envoice you fellas are talking about? Sounds like a killer device. Is it a souped up mic preamp? I am currently just using a Behringer mixer with its preamp.

So, I should be able to get a decent sound with using either a RodeNT3 or an AKGC1000S mic for my Breedloves. Is it also suggested that I go ahead and use the AT4033 on bridge while micing the 12th fret with either the Rode or AKG?

Thanks for all of the help and info you guys have been giving me.

-gman
 
It's an alternative to the mic pres of the mixer. The higher end quality goes directly to tape or disk. You may be happy with the Behringer sound. That's up to you. If you record on hard drive or DAW (digital) you may want to try a tube unit like the Envoice to add warmth to the audio.
I use the Behringer stuff live but not recording.
Yes if you use a large diaphram mic at the bridge about 8 to 10 inches away that will give you the wood. The articulate strings sound will come off the neck about 6 inches using a small dia and angled non perpindicular to the fretboard. Try that combo.
I get great sound using a single mic with a large diaphram on the joint of the neck and body as well. If you are using it for background and not as an important sound of the recording.
It's really all positioning. Try different things.
The Envoice resides at http://www.mindprint.com
Unfortunately I think their site is down right now. I sent an email to check out what the problem is.
 
galen,

i've got both an AT 4033 and a AKG460B(Cardioid Capsule).

here's my opinion on these mics when mic'ing acoustic guitar. i've had the 460 for years and i have used it extensively over the years. but, i'm not inclined to use the 460 over a 4033 on acoustic guitar. i feel the main concern with micing an acoustic guitar is mic placement and the guitar. i feel that mic/guitar choice is similar to mic/vocalist choice. some mics are better for a singer than others mics are for the same singer. i've heard a 4033 sound great on one guitar but boomy on another.

here's how i've been successful using a 4033/4050/NT1/460 on acoustic guitar. also, i always record a stereo pair and mix it to taste later (i may even throw away one of the tracks, but i usually don't):

Mic #1 - i point the 4050-omni(best), 4033(better) or NT 1(good) at the 12th fret, about 12-18 inches away.

Mic #2 - i point a 4033(best), 460(Better), NT1(good) looking up just over the Guitar top pointing at the bridge.

when panning these two i usually achieve very good stereo imaging with a lot of tone and ambience. but, based on the guitar, it may also be somewhat boomy. a bit of EQ solves this.

i usually scoop a bit at 200Hz-350Hz and boost at 7-9k depending on the amount of string noise i want. i usually scoop more than sounds best alone (sounds a bit hollow by itself), but when mixed with bass it's full and robust.

i've also had success with the 460/4033 pair when recording a standup bass. again, mic placement is very important.

most of my success with a 460 is when it's used with another mic. others probably have vastly different experiences with these mics.

i hope this helps....

-kp-
 
gcounselman:
Since you own Breedloves (!): You are probably a little pickier about the recorded sound that others may be. It is probably not enough to sound "good", but you also want to capture how the guitar actually sounds very accurately. For this situation, I have to put in my standard plug for earthworks. I started with an AT4033, like you, and tried quite a few others until I was finally satisfied by their mikes. I use the QTC1s, but other models are probably pretty close (check out the specs)
http://www.earthwks.com

Peace,
Rick
 
gcounselman:

I'm going to order a couple of the AT3528s for recording on my acoustic & as overheads at the end of the month. I also considered the C1000S and the NT3. I want the -10dB pad and the bass roll-off switch that the AT3528 has. I don't believe the others have the same features. It was a tough choice because I REALLY like R0DE mics, and many others here swear by the C1000S. Anyway, if I don't like 'em, I can always send 'em back - (gotta love those catalog orders)
:)
 
Well,

thanks for all of the input. I recently ordered an NT3. It has not blown off my socks yet, but it sounds really great. Since I am used to using my AT4033. The NT3 of course reacts differently to different mic placements. So now, I am fooling around with NT3 mic placements. One thing is for sure, I am not having a problem with "boominess" anymore. As Axix pointed out, I am real picky about my acoustic sound (since what I play is all acoustic). I want to have the best natural acoustic sound as possible within my very limited budget. I looked at the Earthworks and they looked very nice but were way out of my price range. I have been getting great results with the NT3 by mixing between 1) NT3 / Fishman Natural pickup and
2) NT3 / AT4033. I'll let you guys know what I find. If you guys have any other pointers let me know
-galen
 
My only additional tip is that if you visit the E-wks website, and check out the "specials" or "refurbs and blems" page, I bought a pair of "blems" at substantial discount, and when I got em, I can't find a "blem". I suspect it is a little gimmick to keep mikes moving direct from the factory...don't tell anyone I said that !

Rick
 
I typed in a search and found a post that could be relevant ...
I own a 'oz' maton and like finger style guitar.
I bought an NT3.I even spoke to the guy's at the Rode factory and they said the NT3 would be great ,so I listened to them and bought one...I cannot get a nice sweet sounding recording I've tried different rooms and setups and although it helped, it sound quite lifeless.maybe even a bit 'plugged in'. Have I screwed up and bought the wrong mic..I did some recording at a friends with his NT1 and it does sound much sweeter.He has a relatively sound proof room though! please.
 
gcounselman


Your choices are being limited to large diaphragm microphones. While large diaphragm mics are very good, and each brand will offer you a different voicing, most, not all feel a small diaphragm condensor mic is better suited for guitar. Not all small diaphragms sound good for guitar, but most work and sound better than large diaphragms.

One of my all time favorite mics for acoustic guitar is the Sony ECM23F3. It may be a bit hard to find, and about $300.00 to $350.00, but it may be what you are looking for. I use it on all my vintage Martins.

If you stay with a large diaphragm, then look at all the mics you can, as they all have different voicings or tone, and you need to be sure you get the one you want.

Alan Hyatt
Studio Projects
PMI Audio Group
 
gcounselman


Your choices are being limited to large diaphragm microphones. While large diaphragm mics are very good, and each brand will offer you a different voicing, most, not all feel a small diaphragm condensor mic is better suited for guitar. Not all small diaphragms sound good for guitar, but most work and sound better than large diaphragms.

One of my all time favorite mics for acoustic guitar is the Sony ECM23F3. It may be a bit hard to find, and about $300.00 to $350.00, but it may be what you are looking for. I use it on all my vintage Martins.

If you stay with a large diaphragm, then look at all the mics you can, as they all have different voicings or tone, and you need to be sure you get the one you want.

Alan Hyatt
Studio Projects
PMI Audio Group
 
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