Rhythm guitar sounds crap

M

MASTON

New member
I've been trying to record a rhythm guitar part (classical guitar)and it sucks.
Vocals are fine, picking, lead are fine, jingley-jangley strumming (that's struck hard with a pick) sounds OK but this part is just softly strummed with the thumb (and it has to be like that for the song style) and it sounds shite. It sounds OK live but after recording forget it.
No definition, with that real scratchy 8-bit sound.

I've tried loads of mic positions, different pre-amp settings, cakewalk eq & reverb, blueline compression, but nothing.

I've got Octava mk219 into dual art pre into maudio audiophile & cakewalk.

any ideas?

Maston
 
is that a MC219?....if so, you may have more luck with a small diaphragm condenser like the MC012......

I would think that you can get a better sound out of the 219 than what you are getting....it may be the preamp setting you are using? or something else......
 
yah i would try using a small diaphragm to the right of the sound hole (not directly infront of it) but facing the sound hole. Try it with your 219 too. What kind of sound is it recording? that kind of information will help alot? does it sound ok solo'd but just doesnt come through the mix like you need it to??

Darnold
 
Yo guys

it's an MK 219 large diaphram, but I've got an AKG C-1000 (yeah I know nearly everyone reckon its crap) I put away in the cupboard a few months ago. I'll get it out and try again now I know a bit more.

the pre-amp setting I use on my ART is nearly alway Input and Output at 75%, though for this job it's got to be higher cos there's not much volume coming from the guitar at all.

darnold, to the right as in towards the headstock or the back of the guitar (depends which way you're looking at the guitar from see)

It sounds shite solo and better (though still crap) in the mix only cos you can't hear it so much hah!?!?

thanks

Maston
 
AKG C-1000 crap??? No way. That is a great mic from what i have heard for micing acoustic guitar and drum overheads. I meant to the right towards the head stock, that is where you will get the most high frequencies which will give it the nice punchy acoustic sound. just put that a few inch's up the neck (i heard you can put the head about near the 12th fret i think) have it about 6-12 inches away and point it near the sound hole. Then also, what you can do, is put the 219 on the left side opposite of the C1000, this is where the mid frequencies are. anything right infront of the hole will give you really boomy bass. place it where you need to and mix the two mics together (thats what i do). Just watch out for phasing and you might wonna EQ some of the lows out of the 219 after. A little compression would help time the attacks too if you have the option.

Hope i helped yah out. If i didnt, let me know i would be glad to help you out some more.

Darnold
 
I thought of some other things i could also mention that might help if you cant get it to cut through the mix the way you want. If you are using two acoustic guitar sounds you might be getting...forgot the name of the term :D. but its when a louder frequencies competely knocks out the same frequency that is at a low volume. This is all part of mixing. This is where EQ really comes in very handy. Try and seperate the two guitar parts with EQ. It might take a while but if you do, they will both be heard much easier in the mix. Another thing you could try if you are having problems making the lead guitar cut through the mix, is compress the crap out of it. Guitars are very dynamic especially melody. Put the ratio ide say about 4:1, and around 4-6 DB reduction constantly. Keep the attack at around a 30 though, maybe a little slower so it still sounds like a guitar and keep the release pretty long. Of course experimenting is the key. There is no right or wrong and every guitar is different, but that would be about the first estimate settings i would start with and work from there. Whatever sounds good is the right way.

Darnold
 
Here are a couple of thoughts. 1, Are you the same person playing the guitar and recording the guitar? 2, Have you done a basic comparision?
Thought 1: If you are doing both you will never be as accurate as just diong one. I never put a mic somewhere my ear has not been. If I am playing a nylon string acoustic I cannot find that magical spot where the mic should live. Maybe invite a trusted second set of ears for the tracking of this part.
Thought 2: Try something as basic as a 57 direct as possible to your recording medium. Many times I have been pleasantly surprised with going as basic of thinking as possible. At least you will have a more educated opinion. You may even need to try a pickup configuration if all mic avenues have been explored.

Good luck with all that's musical!!
 
Thanks guys,

take me a few days to work through all those suggestions. Get back to you then

cheers
Maston
 
believe it or not, I've had success miking towards the headstock with a single condenser. Especially if you're having problems with boomyness or muddiness
 
The C-1000 would pick up more of the attack transients on a nylon-string guitar because of it's smaller diaphram. You'll need to get it very close to the guitar because strumming a classical guitar with your thumb doesn't project much volume.

I've been using the MK219 a lot on nylon-string and steel-string guitars because it has a natural sound, not too bright and not too much bass. It's not as good as my AT 4033 on acoustic guitar and it won't pick up as much detail as a small diaphram condenser, but it is quite capable of good classical guitar recordings.

For a great sound, try using the AKG C-1000 about six inches from the sound hole aimed at the 12th fret. Position the MK219 at least 3 feet away from the guitar.....be careful to prevent phase problems. Then you can blend and EQ the tracks and get a good composite sound. You don't HAVE to use two mikes to acheive a really good acoustic guitar sound, but it will give you a fuller sound with more dimension. In a crowded track a single small-diaphram condenser mic might be all you need.
 
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