Retube Or Rent High Quality Pre?

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punkrocker

New member
Hi all so I have a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier that I got used off of craigslist and I haven't yet swapped out the tubes. I think that they're between 2-3 years old (they are groove tubes if it matters). I'm going to be recording a new record soon and I'm wondering if it would be better to do a full retube or spend my money on a renting a high quality preamp such as an avalon 737. I am currently just plugging a 57 into a firepod right now. I have heard mixed opinions on how better your sound. Some say the result is just as drastic as changing old guitar strings and if that is the case I will probably go for the retube but others say it makes almost no audible difference. Please enlighten me.
 
Don't waste your money on any of it. You don't need to retube just because they are X amount of time old, and you definitely don't need to rent an Avalon unless you are genuinely curious as to how little difference it will make to your (I assume) livingroom/bedroom/bathroom....well the bathroom might actually be okay depending on what you are recording. How ever much you were planning on spending to rent the Avalon, spend it on a buying a single channel outboard preamp with plenty of gain (and low noise) for your dynamic mic. You will get a decent increase in quality, and you can use it forever rather than take it back after a couple days.
 
Since tubes get old over time, you can't really just "tell" if they need replacing unless you know what it was like initially, if you get me. Listening to your track, I wouldn't say they NEED replacing as such. The amp still sounds decent. Will it sounds better? I would say yes... if they haven't been changed in years.

A good quality set of tubes makes a massive difference. Good tubes like JJ's, not sovteks. Keep in mind that your power tubes work harder and will need replacing sooner. I buy new power amp tubes at least yearly. Preamp tubes don't wear out so fast, I've had mine in for about 3 years and they still sound good.

I'm pretty sure your Mesa is fixed bias, too, which means you can't run your tubes hotter or colder to taste, so you might need to buy graded tubes if you want your amp to be hotter. Mesa's are biased pretty cold from memory, so your power tubes will last longer than some other amps. So much of this is personal preference though... I personally like amps running hotter and as such I need to replace my tubes more often (and I should replace them more often that I do!).

The answer is in your wallet. Get some new power tubes and see if it makes a difference. It should. Go to www.eurotubes.com - the guy gives good advice and really good service. You want smoother tone? Ask him to grade a set for your amp. You want tight low end? etc... Bob is the man, man.

Oh yeah and good advice on the pre. It might hurt too much when you have to give the avalon back.
 
Hmm.

The rule of thumb I was given with power tubes is, if the logo has started to discolor from heat, then the tubes are probably ready for a replacement. The general consensus is 1-2 years of regular (3x a week or more) use is about all you can really expect from power tubes.

Preamp tubes, on the other hand, last a very long time - 5+ years of regular use is normal, and even then what you really want to be listening for is tube noise or microphonics.

So, if you're going to change anything, swap your power tubes but leave your pres.

Actually, scratch that. If you're going to change anything, swap your V1 tube for a Tung-Sol 12AX7. God only knows why, but those things make rectifiers absolutely sing. THEN consider a power tube swap. Save your cash on the pres.

For the Avalon... How good are your recordings now? If you're 99% happy with the sound you're getting, but it's just missing a little something, that's the way to go, though I'd see if you could rent it for an hour or two to test out to see if it makes a difference first. If however you're not that happy with the fundamental sound, then it's probably not your pre that's the problem - it's most likely your mic choice, mic placement, amp settings, interaction with other instruments in the mix, or some combination thereof.
 
Thanks guys! I think then I'll buy set off of euro tubes and mabye buy one of those Tung-Sol's at guitar center.
 
I replace tubes in my amp when my strings dont melt with the tubes being pushed. Like someone else said, you dont know what it sounded like new, so you have no comparison. Go to your local stealer and play a new one and see if you notice a difference.
I have seen many players sell a great amp that just needed a tube job.
As far as how many years to replace tubes, you cant really go by that. Some will play once a week, some once a month, and some folks will play 10 hours a day, 7 days a week. You have to know the hours used. Also, what environment was it played in? Was it in a home smoke free studio, or was it gigged to hell and back? If you do decide to retube the amp, I would highly suggest you go ahead and do a whole tube job. To go to the expense of replacing the tubes and not cleaning everything up would be kinda like changing the oil in your ride, and not changing the filter.
Also, (I dont know much about the dr you have, but..) you could possibly have the amp biased to run hotter. Let's face it, you got a tube amp not to leave them puppies cold, but to melt the strings!!
Got a Trace elliot tvt-9 pre from ebay. It sounded nice, but not what I was expecting. The thing has 8 12ax7's in it. Did a tube job on it, and man, it was a totally different animal! I recon the fella I got it from thought it was dieing on him, as it was a steal for me, and...his loss, my gain!!
Cheers!
 
Purple Pig said:
I replace tubes in my amp when my strings dont melt with the tubes being pushed. Like someone else said, you dont know what it sounded like new, so you have no comparison. Go to your local stealer and play a new one and see if you notice a difference.
I have seen many players sell a great amp that just needed a tube job.
As far as how many years to replace tubes, you cant really go by that. Some will play once a week, some once a month, and some folks will play 10 hours a day, 7 days a week. You have to know the hours used. Also, what environment was it played in? Was it in a home smoke free studio, or was it gigged to hell and back? If you do decide to retube the amp, I would highly suggest you go ahead and do a whole tube job. To go to the expense of replacing the tubes and not cleaning everything up would be kinda like changing the oil in your ride, and not changing the filter.
Also, (I dont know much about the dr you have, but..) you could possibly have the amp biased to run hotter. Let's face it, you got a tube amp not to leave them puppies cold, but to melt the strings!!
Got a Trace elliot tvt-9 pre from ebay. It sounded nice, but not what I was expecting. The thing has 8 12ax7's in it. Did a tube job on it, and man, it was a totally different animal! I recon the fella I got it from thought it was dieing on him, as it was a steal for me, and...his loss, my gain!!
Cheers!
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Sorry but I don't understand what you're saying. When your strings don't melt with the tubes being pushed? What do you mean by that?
 
punkrocker said:
Sorry but I don't understand what you're saying. When your strings don't melt with the tubes being pushed? What do you mean by that?
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I dont litterally mean that the strings melt, but of how the guitar plays when the tubes are pushed.
If you were to take your amp and turn the pre gain down to 2 and the post to a 6, play your guitar that way and see how the guitar responds to that, then take your amp and turn the pre to a 10, and the post to a 4.
Go ahead, plug up and check it out, the difference of the feel of your guitar should show you what cold strings feel/play like, and then the other way you should feel how the strings have the "melted" feel to them. You should feel the difference even if using a solid state amp. Instead of forcing the strings to react in a certain way, it should be a "gelling" of you, your axe, and the amp.

That is the best way I know of to explain it. If that makes no sense to you, it may be a matter of semantics. :D
 
punkrocker said:
oh ok I see what you mean. you mean like the sag thing right? yeah it does that when I turn it up.
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You know, strings begin to respond like you have always wished they would, guitar sounds better than ever...kinda like the old block letter 5150's when you pull 2 of the power tubes(so you can drive the amp harder, cause let's face it, that amp is too loud!!) and turn that puppy up, and you get this s#@* eating grin on your face. Anyone else know what I am talking about. I am sure you do, just probably use different words to describe it. I wish you lived closer so I could show you what I mean
 
Purple Pig said:
You know, strings begin to respond like you have always wished they would, guitar sounds better than ever...kinda like the old block letter 5150's when you pull 2 of the power tubes(so you can drive the amp harder, cause let's face it, that amp is too loud!!) and turn that puppy up, and you get this s#@* eating grin on your face. Anyone else know what I am talking about. I am sure you do, just probably use different words to describe it. I wish you lived closer so I could show you what I mean
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I got that amp! Woo! You can pull out 2 tubes on most A/B amps (make sure they are the inner or outer pair, you need it to balance) but you won't get half the volume, and your power tranny might not like it (peaveys are pretty overbuilt so they'll hack it but it's not universal advice as such)... you can push it harder though.

With the 5150, I modded mine so I can bias it (they are fixed from the factory WAY too cold) - if you have one - DO IT. It really fixes the tone, gets that response and feel of a loud amp at much lower levels (not really but it's a lot warmer) and the clean channel becomes usable (if not quite good). It's a shame Peavey didn't make them hotter but you can fix that for about 50c!
 
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