Refurb M3500 into an M3700, or M3700 into an M3500....?
- Thread starter sr71rules
- Start date
I am so excited! The board is now in my house and is in great shape. It has the aforementioned fuse issue but it seems to be related to a few modules which I will work to sort out over the next couple of days.
The automation system is intact. The unit came with two manuals, one for the M3700 and one for the JLCooper automation system. Is that standard? Is the JL Cooper bit an addon?
The mixer has the pedestal stand. Perfect.
The mixer has, installed, the balancing kit!! Too cool. This is the very top end M3700 and I could not be more happy.
The seller told me that if channels 22 and 32 are plugged in the fuse blows immediately. I'll pull them out soon and take a look for anything obvious. Worst case scenario I'll run the board as a 30 channel. Interesting that two unmodded channels are blowing not modded ones. The seller said he really liked the modded channels and could notice a big difference. I will obviously do lots of A/B testing when I can but he said he loved those 16 channels and was not happy that the board wasn't working. The seller was a great guy and was sad to see it go. Not to worry though.. it's found a new home where it will get much love
Did I mention I got it for $200?
Robert
The automation system is intact. The unit came with two manuals, one for the M3700 and one for the JLCooper automation system. Is that standard? Is the JL Cooper bit an addon?
The mixer has the pedestal stand. Perfect.
The mixer has, installed, the balancing kit!! Too cool. This is the very top end M3700 and I could not be more happy.
The seller told me that if channels 22 and 32 are plugged in the fuse blows immediately. I'll pull them out soon and take a look for anything obvious. Worst case scenario I'll run the board as a 30 channel. Interesting that two unmodded channels are blowing not modded ones. The seller said he really liked the modded channels and could notice a big difference. I will obviously do lots of A/B testing when I can but he said he loved those 16 channels and was not happy that the board wasn't working. The seller was a great guy and was sad to see it go. Not to worry though.. it's found a new home where it will get much love
Did I mention I got it for $200?
Robert
briank
analog for the people!
Man that's sounding like a pretty sick deal. I'm jealous of that stand and balancing kit! The JL Cooper auto was optional, mine doesn't have it and I've never used it, nice score there too, that does sound like a top-end fully loaded M3700. If pulling two channels gets it working, that's fantastic!
timkroeger
Custom Title User
You are one lucky...
Sounds really great!
Tim
Sounds really great!
Tim
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Pics dammit...I mean "please?"
That is indeed a fully-loaded M-3700.
That is indeed a fully-loaded M-3700.
Quick Shot
Well, I did take a quick shot this AM before I left for work.. more to follow of course! This was a shot taken on my iPhone in a very dark basement... I'll break out the SLR when I get home.
The JL Copper automation bit seems to be an addin card for the onboard automation computer. I'm not 100% certain what it does. I've not had a chance to read the whole manual quite yet but it looks like you can use it to display the position and movement of faders via a computer. The binder that holds the manual for what it calls 'M3700 Pro Automation' has a floppy disk in it so I'll have to see what it holds. The manual suggests the application is Mac OS only so fixing up an old Mac may be in my future. The onboard automation is pretty powerful but being able to see where things are would be nice too... We'll see. I'm still trying to keep my excitement from clouding my plans. This board is not a fun project, take it or leave it. This board will be the center of my studio and I need to make sure that when the excitement of the new gear wears off (if ever...) that I am left with a reliable board that I can be proud to use.
I have an electrical engineer friend who seems interested in this little project though and he has offered to help me get things running. He's planning to visit a week from Saturday so hopefully I'll have an idea if the board is workable or not before the end of the month.
Once work on it starts in earnest I will start a new 'Sweetbeats style' story thread. I will also be doing a lot of documenting of the board and posting it online so others can find it. I found Tim Kroger's work on his site (home [tubegeek]) very helpful getting me started so I'd like to do the same.
Robert
Well, I did take a quick shot this AM before I left for work.. more to follow of course! This was a shot taken on my iPhone in a very dark basement... I'll break out the SLR when I get home.
The JL Copper automation bit seems to be an addin card for the onboard automation computer. I'm not 100% certain what it does. I've not had a chance to read the whole manual quite yet but it looks like you can use it to display the position and movement of faders via a computer. The binder that holds the manual for what it calls 'M3700 Pro Automation' has a floppy disk in it so I'll have to see what it holds. The manual suggests the application is Mac OS only so fixing up an old Mac may be in my future. The onboard automation is pretty powerful but being able to see where things are would be nice too... We'll see. I'm still trying to keep my excitement from clouding my plans. This board is not a fun project, take it or leave it. This board will be the center of my studio and I need to make sure that when the excitement of the new gear wears off (if ever...) that I am left with a reliable board that I can be proud to use.
I have an electrical engineer friend who seems interested in this little project though and he has offered to help me get things running. He's planning to visit a week from Saturday so hopefully I'll have an idea if the board is workable or not before the end of the month.
Once work on it starts in earnest I will start a new 'Sweetbeats style' story thread. I will also be doing a lot of documenting of the board and posting it online so others can find it. I found Tim Kroger's work on his site (home [tubegeek]) very helpful getting me started so I'd like to do the same.
Robert
The Ghost of FM
Banned
Please do! I'd love to include your mixer in the TASCAM wallpaper thread too, if you don't mind sharing them!
And congrats on the $200 score! Amazing deal!
Cheers!
Pictures!!
Alright.. here goes!
First up is the whole console in it's glory.
These next images are in order of how they appear on the board. They are messy still...
Input Controls
EQ
Aux
Monitor
Bussing
You can see screw holes missing their screws here. The board has a strip of alluminum that tells you what each channel number is as well as covering up the calibration knobs for the VCAs. I left it off so you could see the hidden pots in there. Eagle eye'd viewer will notice that the channel has a Mute button below the Solo button as well as at the base of each fader. The Mute near the Solo button is a standard latching mute identical to the M3500 (and any other console frankly). The lower mute is a soft button that is automatable. With the exception of the Mute below the Solo button all the other mutes on each channel are soft non latching automatable buttons as is the EQ in button.
Faders
Then on over to the master section and it's faders.
Automation:
Master
Master Fader And Bus Masters
Then of course the connectors along the back:
Master Connections
You can see some of the DB25 connectors as a result of the balancing kit installed.
Input Connections
This is the inside of the Power Supply
Ghost, let me know if you'd like higher res versions. It's hard to get even light at night in a basement! Once the console is in tip top shape and installed in the studio I'll spend some time making some beauty shots.
Alright.. here goes!
First up is the whole console in it's glory.
These next images are in order of how they appear on the board. They are messy still...
Input Controls
EQ
Aux
Monitor
Bussing
You can see screw holes missing their screws here. The board has a strip of alluminum that tells you what each channel number is as well as covering up the calibration knobs for the VCAs. I left it off so you could see the hidden pots in there. Eagle eye'd viewer will notice that the channel has a Mute button below the Solo button as well as at the base of each fader. The Mute near the Solo button is a standard latching mute identical to the M3500 (and any other console frankly). The lower mute is a soft button that is automatable. With the exception of the Mute below the Solo button all the other mutes on each channel are soft non latching automatable buttons as is the EQ in button.
Faders
Then on over to the master section and it's faders.
Automation:
Master
Master Fader And Bus Masters
Then of course the connectors along the back:
Master Connections
You can see some of the DB25 connectors as a result of the balancing kit installed.
Input Connections
This is the inside of the Power Supply
Ghost, let me know if you'd like higher res versions. It's hard to get even light at night in a basement! Once the console is in tip top shape and installed in the studio I'll spend some time making some beauty shots.
briank
analog for the people!
Yep, that's a very familiar sight alright! Mine looks just like it except my armrest is gray and yours seems to be missing the label strip...what a steal you got, the 200 bucks was worth the stand alone, or the upgraded ICs, and less than the balancing kit (of which I'm particularly jealous...the unbalanced outputs are really killing the romance with mine)...looks great! I read that you can just run the knobs through the dishwasher (wish I had one!). I'll be curious to see if the JL Cooper auto is worth getting going...it would be nice to see exact fader positions, although if it doesn't work out, at least the standard auto has arrows that light up to show you when the VCAs are higher, lower, or null to the physical fader position.
Did someone really cut 9dBs of high shelf??
Did someone really cut 9dBs of high shelf??
The Ghost of FM
Banned
Yeah, a high res of the first shot would be cool!
send it to; jeffpeletz "at" sympatico.ca
I should be able to work with that one as nothing is cut off. If you have others at different angles of the full board with no cut off corners, feel free to send those too!
Cheers!
send it to; jeffpeletz "at" sympatico.ca
I should be able to work with that one as nothing is cut off. If you have others at different angles of the full board with no cut off corners, feel free to send those too!
Cheers!
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On it's way Ghost.
Briank, everyone is cutting 9db of high shelf these days, get with it! I've not even run audio through it so if someone did or if it's just been turned during all the moving.. we'll never know. Perhaps they were going for the underwater sound-scape...
I mentioned above about the aluminum channel strip, I have it, it's just off so you can see the hidden pots. It would be a huge pain to use with out it! Each channel is soooo looonnnggg I would be trying to tracing things down constantly! Just having it off now boggles my mind.
Right now I'm trying to find the extra software for JL Cooper addon and I'll cover in detail it's in and outs (pun intended) assuming I can find it and make it work. I have some older Macs but nothing from the early 90s. My oldest is a G3 from 1999. Finger Crossed...
Robert
Briank, everyone is cutting 9db of high shelf these days, get with it!
I've not even run audio through it so if someone did or if it's just been turned during all the moving.. we'll never know. Perhaps they were going for the underwater sound-scape...I mentioned above about the aluminum channel strip, I have it, it's just off so you can see the hidden pots. It would be a huge pain to use with out it! Each channel is soooo looonnnggg I would be trying to tracing things down constantly! Just having it off now boggles my mind.
Right now I'm trying to find the extra software for JL Cooper addon and I'll cover in detail it's in and outs (pun intended) assuming I can find it and make it work. I have some older Macs but nothing from the early 90s. My oldest is a G3 from 1999. Finger Crossed...
Robert
The Ghost of FM
Banned
Thanks Robert.
I still haven't received anything yet and send you a PM discussing attachment issues, if you are having them.
Cheers!
timkroeger
Custom Title User
Please stop posting pictures. Up until now I was happy with my M-3500. Now I need a balancing kit. And an M-3700. Ok, won't happen, so please go ahead. 
Wait! I'll give you $400.00. So you make 200% and I get a bargain. I let you even keep the stand, hehe...
The dishwasher worked really well with the knobs on my board. You need to get them off for cleaning the channel surface anyway. Just make sure it's not too hot. I think I washed them at 40°C (104°F) as I can set it up at 40, 55 and 70°C. Just a reminder if you go about cleaning faders and such: don't use FaderLube. Never. Use something that has no lubing effect at all, if you must. DeoxIT D100 should work well, I didn't test it myself though Miroslav did.
Cheers
Tim
Wait! I'll give you $400.00. So you make 200% and I get a bargain. I let you even keep the stand, hehe...The dishwasher worked really well with the knobs on my board. You need to get them off for cleaning the channel surface anyway. Just make sure it's not too hot. I think I washed them at 40°C (104°F) as I can set it up at 40, 55 and 70°C. Just a reminder if you go about cleaning faders and such: don't use FaderLube. Never. Use something that has no lubing effect at all, if you must. DeoxIT D100 should work well, I didn't test it myself though Miroslav did.
Cheers
Tim
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timkroeger
Custom Title User
Funny you should mention the balancing kit Tim. I don't see a huge need for it at the moment. It has I/O on DB25 for 16 'Tape In' and the 'Group Outs' twice. I understand the reasons for the I/O it supports but I'm not especially hung up on keeping everything balanced. Once the audio enters the board it's no longer balanced anyway... If I had a 16 track tape machine with only balanced I/O I would certainly wire it up but I plan to use a Motu 24IO, which supports both -10 and +4 as well as my TSR8, which isn't balanced. I was pretty surprised to see it on the board though!
The seller said that even with the kit installed he still preferred to use the Direct Outs for recording, which are -10 RCA jacks. He said the audio coming through the Group outs, balanced and unbalanced, sounded appreciably different. I've yet to get any audio through the desk so I can't confirm but logically it should be different since it's going through the bussing system, ect. If I'll hear a difference, I don't know.
Tim, do you use the Direct Outs or the busses? Have you ever compared them? How about your Microslav? Any other M3x000 users out there with thoughts? I plan to wire my patchbays with the Direct Outs half-normalled to my interface and tape machine but I'll have the group outs on the patchbay as well.
The Automation side of the board seems to be working well. I don't have it sync'd to any TC yet but in snapshot mode I'm able to save and load snapshots and things turn on and off as expected. Pretty cool. I found a 3.5" floppy disk in one of the binders labeled 'M3700 Pro Software B/up' so I'm trying to pull the data off of it and test it out. Oddly enough someone recently gave me a USB floppy drive for the Mac platform so it's a matter of getting a machine setup running a 'classic' OS and seeing what's what. Fingers crossed! The documentation mentions nothing about which old Mac OS's are supported. The feature I'm most interested in is the ability to load and save automation data to the computer, instead of on 3.5" floppy. Making backups of files from a computer is a lot easier then trying to keep a stack of floppy disks in good working order...
Robert
The seller said that even with the kit installed he still preferred to use the Direct Outs for recording, which are -10 RCA jacks. He said the audio coming through the Group outs, balanced and unbalanced, sounded appreciably different. I've yet to get any audio through the desk so I can't confirm but logically it should be different since it's going through the bussing system, ect. If I'll hear a difference, I don't know.
Tim, do you use the Direct Outs or the busses? Have you ever compared them? How about your Microslav? Any other M3x000 users out there with thoughts? I plan to wire my patchbays with the Direct Outs half-normalled to my interface and tape machine but I'll have the group outs on the patchbay as well.
The Automation side of the board seems to be working well. I don't have it sync'd to any TC yet but in snapshot mode I'm able to save and load snapshots and things turn on and off as expected. Pretty cool. I found a 3.5" floppy disk in one of the binders labeled 'M3700 Pro Software B/up' so I'm trying to pull the data off of it and test it out. Oddly enough someone recently gave me a USB floppy drive for the Mac platform so it's a matter of getting a machine setup running a 'classic' OS and seeing what's what. Fingers crossed! The documentation mentions nothing about which old Mac OS's are supported. The feature I'm most interested in is the ability to load and save automation data to the computer, instead of on 3.5" floppy. Making backups of files from a computer is a lot easier then trying to keep a stack of floppy disks in good working order...
Robert
timkroeger
Custom Title User
Hey Robert,
I have an ATR-60/16 which is balanced only. I discussed bypassing the balancing on the machine here, because internally it runs unbalanced. I have not had any time to get to it though and I'm still not sure I want to mess with the deck. Also, I don't want to buy 4 of those 8 channel line level converters, because they are not especially cheap. I'd love to get my hands on one of those balancing kits though, even if they colour the sound. It would be a cool experiment and the ATR-60/16 has DB25 ports itself.
I've already modified the master section with the group busses to use the OPA2132 chips, even removed some electrolytics, but I haven't done any extensive comparisons regarding direct outs and group busses. I have routed every out to my patchbay though, so I should be able to do some quick tests. I made up my mind to make a level matched recording of both an unmodified and a modified channel, invert the phase on one and hear what the difference sounds like. Maybe I'll hear something interesting.
I believe I read a thread where someone had the automation running with the mac. Maybe it was eben my own M-3500 thread, but I'm commuting between cities now and the connectivity is not that good right now, so I'm not able to a lot of searching
Cheers
Tim
I have an ATR-60/16 which is balanced only. I discussed bypassing the balancing on the machine here, because internally it runs unbalanced. I have not had any time to get to it though and I'm still not sure I want to mess with the deck. Also, I don't want to buy 4 of those 8 channel line level converters, because they are not especially cheap. I'd love to get my hands on one of those balancing kits though, even if they colour the sound. It would be a cool experiment and the ATR-60/16 has DB25 ports itself.
I've already modified the master section with the group busses to use the OPA2132 chips, even removed some electrolytics, but I haven't done any extensive comparisons regarding direct outs and group busses. I have routed every out to my patchbay though, so I should be able to do some quick tests. I made up my mind to make a level matched recording of both an unmodified and a modified channel, invert the phase on one and hear what the difference sounds like. Maybe I'll hear something interesting.
I believe I read a thread where someone had the automation running with the mac. Maybe it was eben my own M-3500 thread, but I'm commuting between cities now and the connectivity is not that good right now, so I'm not able to a lot of searching
Cheers
Tim
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Not to tease you....but I have the balancing kit, though I never bothered to install it, just didn't see much purpose to it...yet I don't relay want to sell it either. I may(?) want it at some point and/or when/if I ever sell my 3500, the next owner will get the balancing kit, my spare 3500 power supply and all my spare modules, faders, LEDS...etc...etc.
See...I realized awhile ago that I might have the 3500 for many years...so I made a point of stockpiling spare parts so I could keep things running, especially since it would be a PITA to try and find parts/service on an older board.
Oh...I also have a couple of -4/+8 bal/unbal boxes...so if/when I *need* to run one or two tracks fully balanced in my signal chain...that's how I do it.
See...I realized awhile ago that I might have the 3500 for many years...so I made a point of stockpiling spare parts so I could keep things running, especially since it would be a PITA to try and find parts/service on an older board.
Oh...I also have a couple of -4/+8 bal/unbal boxes...so if/when I *need* to run one or two tracks fully balanced in my signal chain...that's how I do it.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
That, my friend, is a beefy looking transformer...