Recording with stereo tracks

[Sifunkle]

Possibly my newbest question yet, and I might know the answer anyway, but I want to be sure.

I've done a lot of reading on 'music production for beginners' recently, and it seems like every author has skipped over this, possibly because it's so fundamental it's assumed knowledge... but: what is a stereo track?

I'm coming from the angle of having only recorded one thing at a time through my interface (one mic, one instrument line, etc), which I expect partly explains my lack of understanding...

I know what it looks like when I have one in Cubase: kinda like one track that actually has 2 tracks in it. I assume they get sent through Lines Out so that one goes to the L speaker, one goes to the R, and so forth. But given that you can pan mono tracks towards the L or R anyway, what advantages do stereo tracks have?

And how do you create them in the first place? I mean I can set up my single condenser mic so that it records to a stereo track instead of a mono, but what's the point if the two parts of the stereo track are exact duplicates?

I'm assuming stereo tracks are for when simultaneously using, eg, 2 mics at once to record the same thing. For example (maybe not a realistic one), you could put two mics either side of a singer and record some vox into a stereo track, so that you'd have the mic on the L picking up the ambient characteristics of the L side of the room (and the stereo track thus causing that part of the recording to come out the L speaker) and the same for the right mic. But even then, I dunno why you'd favour that over 2 mono tracks, which you could do the same thing with anyway, among many other things.

I can see that perhaps if you were recording say a live band, you might want to use stereo tracks in order to preserve the spatial arrangement of the band (having the bleed from other performers than the one you were micing coming from the correct side). From my brainstorming thus far, this scenario seems to be the only one where stereo tracks would be better suited than mono...

Could someone please:

- Confirm my impression of what a stereo track is?
- Comment on my suggestions of what stereo tracks might be used for?
- Suggest applications where stereo tracks would be favoured over mono?

Thanks in advance!!

Si

 

[Bobbsy]

You're most of the way there for yourself.

A single microphone is a mono source and recording it to both halves of a stereo track is just saving the same thing twice--i.e. no point at all.

Where a stereo track comes into its own is when you use either two nicely matched microphones or a specialist stereo mic to record the same thing from two different positions--sometimes slightly different, sometimes deliberately spaced. Doing that puts slightly different information in each track and gives genuine spatial information which, on playback, nicely locates things in the soundfield.

Basically, I tend to use stereo miking techniques when I'm recording something where the spatial information will sound good. A choir or a small orchestra in a space like a church sounds great that way. So can a brass band in any nice sounding space. More controversially, I like to record acoustic guitar in stereo--this is artificial because you never (well, rarely!) stick your head in front of a guitar to have your ears over the 12th fret and near the bridge but is can sure sound nice!

Bob

 

[Sifunkle]

Ahh, thanks Bob! Now that you've mentioned it, I do remember hearing about a technique where you secure two mics to either end of a sheet of plywood and use that to position them either side of what you're recording...

I think I'll definitely be using your acoustic guitar trick at some point, I've always been fascinated by how different the sounds are between the 12th fret (round and warm) and the bridge (snappy and aggressive - in my words anyway ).

Can I just confirm, is a stereo track directly equivalent to having two mono tracks that are hard-panned L & R (ie, 100% panned)?

And the spatial advantage of a stereo track vs two panned mono tracks would be that it exactly reflects the spatial arrangement of the recording, rather than being up to the producer's subjective judgement of what the pans should be on the 2 mono tracks?

 

[kentheriot]

Hi Sifunkle,

Great question! This is one of the "Five Things I Wish I'd Known" when I started with recording. Here is an excerpt from my (shameless plug) eBook, "The Newbies Guide To Audio Recording": Here are those five things I wish I had known when I started recording audio. First, it is only stereo if the sound from the left speaker is different in some way (slight delay, slightly different tone, etc.) from the sound coming from the right. This can be confusing because even when listening to a “mono” (recorded with just one microphone) sound, you still hear it coming out of both speakers right? So isn’t that stereo? Actually it isn’t. It’s just “mono coming out of two speakers.” Here’s how you can really tell the difference. If you close your eyes while listening to a mono sound coming from two speakers (or with headphones on), it will seem to be coming from right in front of you, in other words, in the dead center between the two speakers. However, if the sound is truly stereo, it will seem to come from all around you, giving a sense of space and separation. There are numerous ways to create stereo sound, either recording with two mics, or editing the audio after the fact.

Some of the ways to create a stereo effect, especially when recording like you (and me most of the time), one track at a time, is to record something twice as mono tracks (so for example you'd play a guitar part once, then open a new track, and play the same part a second time while listening to the first. The two performances will be different enough, in timing and lots of other little ways, but still similar enough since they were recorded with the same instrument, same mic, same basic space, etc., that if you pan the two resulting tracks hard left and right, you get a NICE stereo guitar effect. But it's created from two mono tracks.

One other thing to be careful of. ONce you get the stereo jones, you'll be tempted to record EVERYthing in stereo. Resist this! Things can get really muddy and undefined, with gaping holes in the middle of the sound stage, etc. if everything is panned to the sides.

Hope that helps!

Ken Theriot

 

[Bobbsy]

Ahh, thanks Bob! Now that you've mentioned it, I do remember hearing about a technique where you secure two mics to either end of a sheet of plywood and use that to position them either side of what you're recording...

I think I'll definitely be using your acoustic guitar trick at some point, I've always been fascinated by how different the sounds are between the 12th fret (round and warm) and the bridge (snappy and aggressive - in my words anyway ).

Can I just confirm, is a stereo track directly equivalent to having two mono tracks that are hard-panned L & R (ie, 100% panned)?

Yes but it has to be two DIFFERENT mono tracks with the microphones spaced in a particular way. There are various techniques for the spacing and aiming of the microphones, depending on what you want to achieve. Have a Google for "X-Y stereo", "ORTF Stereo", "Spaced Omni stereo" to start with but there are lots of others!

And the spatial advantage of a stereo track vs two panned mono tracks would be that it exactly reflects the spatial arrangement of the recording, rather than being up to the producer's subjective judgement of what the pans should be on the 2 mono tracks?

Yes, within the restriction of how the mics were placed. Different techniques give different stereo effects. All have advantages and disadvantages depending on what you're recording and what you're trying to achieve.

Bob

 

[miroslav]

Not sure if it was mentioneed...but most DAW apps default to recording everything as "stereo"...even if you just stick one mic in front of something...so you got those "two tracks in one" that are actually identical, and NOT real "stereo".
Just set your app to record mono tracks for mono sources as your default (which is most of the time for most situations)...and when you need to do true stereo...just switch that one time.

 

[mjbphotos]

If you are recording an instrument that is being processed/FXed while recording, for example with a stereo phaser or flanger, you would want to record it as produced.

 

[bdenton]

Not sure if it was mentioneed...but most DAW apps default to recording everything as "stereo" ...

I don't know about "most", but the one most used by professionals certainly doesn't.

With Pro Tools, you can create either a mono track or a stereo track, and they are two totally different animals.

While someone did mention using stereo tracks for effects that take a mono input and output a stereo signal, such as reverbs, the most obvious use seems to have been overlooked...

Some sources are inherently stereo, such as a lot of synthesizers or edrums. Obviously you would want to record these to a stereo track to preserve the stereo image and phasing, plus it's a lot simpler to deal with when you start editing...

 

[mixsit]

...Can I just confirm, is a stereo track directly equivalent to having two mono tracks that are hard-panned L & R (ie, 100% panned)?

Yes but it has to be two DIFFERENT mono tracks with the microphones spaced in a particular way. There are various techniques for the spacing and aiming of the microphones, depending on what you want to achieve. Have a Google for "X-Y stereo", "ORTF Stereo", "Spaced Omni stereo" to start with but there are lots of others!..

I guess there is the specific use of the term 'stereo that means particular methods in the capture of an image, but in the context of 'what makes a stereo track? I go with it's the content; anything different on the two sides = no longer two side making mono.

And the spatial advantage of a stereo track vs two panned mono tracks would be that it exactly reflects the spatial arrangement of the recording, rather than being up to the producer's subjective judgement of what the pans should be on the 2 mono tracks?

Another yes -but to add I do most of my stereo tracking in dual mono specifically for the reason it offers the pan and level options in mixing. Kit and O/Hs in my tracking template for example are dual mono pairs grouped, pans are reverse grouped for single point width control. Downside.. double the eq's perhaps.

 

[mixsit]

... you would want to record these to a stereo track to preserve the stereo image and phasing, plus it's a lot simpler to deal with when you start editing...

Very good point about the editing there.

 

[miroslav]

I don't know about "most", but the one most used by professionals certainly doesn't.

With Pro Tools, you can create either a mono track or a stereo track, and they are two totally different animals.

You can do that with any DAW (not just the one "most used by professionals" ).

I'm not talking about any limitations from DAW to DAW...it's just a default selection.
The point I was making is that in the record/track settings many DAWs will track sources as a "stereo" track by default...so you need to set it to MONO and/or change that default.

 

[Sifunkle]

Thanks heaps for all the replies everyone,

Just got a couple more questions about stereo tracks now, help me understand a bit more before I start trying to use them.

I'm a bit confused about how panning of stereo tracks operates conceptually. From my attempts so far it seems to behave just like with mono tracks.

Based on this thread, I've learned that a stereo track is equivalent to 2 different mono tracks hard-panned each way. So I would have expected that if I progressively panned a stereo track left, it should stay closer to the centre for longer than doing the same with a mono track?

I'm half asking this in a bid to understand something from Tweakheadz guide:

He's suggesting that for synth pads to sit well in the mix, they should be recorded in stereo and hard-panned left and right. I'm assuming this means that I should record two different stereo tracks and pan them respectively left and right? Or is there some way of adjusting the separation between the L & R channels within one stereo track?

And how would this differ to doing similar with mono tracks?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bobbsy]

If it's a stereo track, you wouldn't normally pan it at all. The differences between the left and right tracks already contain "panning", i.e. information about where in the stereo field individual sounds will be represented.

If you use two microphones, each into its own track and pan one hard left and one hard right you get the left track from the left speaker and right track from the right speaker. If the tracks were recorded completely separately, the left and right are completely different.

However, if both mics are recording the same source but separated in space, the left track will include some "right" information, just at a lower level and, importantly, slightly out of phase with the right hand mic. The right hand mic contains some "left" information, again at a lower level and at a different phase.

These phase differences cause the sound to be spread across the stereo field when you play them back panned left and right (or mixed together in a stereo track).

The same apples to synth pads (or stereo electronic pianos, etc.) if you record them panned hard left and right. Both feeds contain information from the "other side" with phase differences which allow the total sound to have spatial information when you play them back or mix them.

Hope this is clear enough!

Bob

 

[Sifunkle]

Oh, great Bob, much clearer now, thanks a lot!

...the left track will include some "right" information, just at a lower level and, importantly, slightly out of phase with the right hand mic. The right hand mic contains some "left" information, again at a lower level and at a different phase.

Just to clarify (it's been a long time since studying physics), 'out of phase' is referring to the actual soundwaves, rather than anything electronic or digital data-related? As in you might record a compression on one side and a rarefaction on the other? So if you subsequently panned one closer to the centre, you might get phase-cancelling of the sound?

Cheers,

Si

 

[Bobbsy]

Basically yes, though (again) you don't need to play with the panning to get the effect.

Think of your ears. If you're sitting listening to somebody talking, oh, six feet away from you directly in front of you the sound waves arrive at both ears at exactly the same time. However, if the person speaking is six feet away and a few feet to the right, the sound waves arrive at your right ear fractionally before they get to your left ear. The distance is probably less than the length of one wave (exactly how much less varies with frequency) so, because the two waves don't line up exactly, the "peak" of one wave is displaced slightly from the "peak" on the other side. This difference is known as "out of phase" and the brain can interpret this information, along with things like the slight difference in level and the extra "echo" coming off walls to work out where the sound is coming from.

Exactly the same applies to a stereo sound track either created with two mics or made artificially in a synth or whatever. When the two sound signals are in separate tracks (as opposed to mixed into a single stereo track) you use the hard left/hard right panning to simulate the left/right position of your ears. Panning other than hard right/hard left will change the relationship and mess up the stereo field--no harm in experimenting to see if it gives an effect you like but the results will be a bit unpredictable as you pan the tracks and mix them up "in the middle".

Bob

 

[Jeff_D]

sounds like you've got a firm grip on the stereo issue (lots of people come around and want to put up one mic, then record it to a "stereo" track thinking it'll then be "in stereo"). With that said, I pretty much never record to a stereo track, even when I'm recording in stereo. I think the most common stereo app (for me anyway) is drum overheads. Keeping them on separate mono tracks allows you to control the stereo spread as well as process, eq, etc each "side" of the stereo drum recording separately. To me, there is no benefit to having a stereo track in the "tracking" phase of recording.

 

[RAMI]

He's suggesting that for synth pads to sit well in the mix, they should be recorded in stereo and hard-panned left and right. I'm assuming this means that I should record two different stereo tracks and pan them respectively left and right? Or is there some way of adjusting the separation between the L & R channels within one stereo track?

No, that's not what he means. Record in stereo ONCE and pan the 2 mono tracks hard left and right. It's that simple.

 

[Sifunkle]

Thanks again all,

Bob: I think I'm really starting to 'get' the theory of it now! Now I remember a prac I did once with two oscillators set up where I had to walk in a straight line parallel to them and record sound intensity at different points - I think my difficulty was in understanding it in terms of how it's recorded, processed and then presented through the stereo track, which I get now, thanks!

Jeff_D: Sounds right to me - from what I've understood so far, unless I was really trying to realistically preserve the spatial quality of a performance as it existed, mono tracks would give more room for production enhancements. Kind of a moot point for me anyway at this stage, cos I've only got one mic ...but once I've got some spare money!

No, that's not what he means. Record in stereo ONCE and pan the 2 mono tracks hard left and right. It's that simple.

RAMI: This might just be my newbiness (lack of understanding of my sequencer etc), or maybe I'm getting terminology confused, but I'm not quite sure what you mean. If I'm recording in stereo once, don't I get one stereo track? In which case, where are the 2 mono tracks? I feel stupid, but I think I really need this one spelled out.

Edit: Or does 'record in stereo' not literally mean 'record a stereo track', but 'record 2 mono tracks'?

 

[Bobbsy]

Edit: Or does 'record in stereo' not literally mean 'record a stereo track', but 'record 2 mono tracks'?

It can be either. Two mono tracks panned hard left and hard right will give you exactly the same effect as a single stereo track so long as your source material is stereo to start with. In reality a "stereo track" is just two mono tracks locked together in time.

Bob

 

[grimtraveller]

No, that's not what he means. Record in stereo ONCE and pan the 2 mono tracks hard left and right. It's that simple.

or maybe I'm getting terminology confused, but I'm not quite sure what you mean. If I'm recording in stereo once, don't I get one stereo track? In which case, where are the 2 mono tracks? I feel stupid, but I think I really need this one spelled out.

Edit: Or does 'record in stereo' not literally mean 'record a stereo track', but 'record 2 mono tracks'?

It can be either. Two mono tracks panned hard left and hard right will give you exactly the same effect as a single stereo track so long as your source material is stereo to start with. In reality a "stereo track" is just two mono tracks locked together in time.

much clearer now, thanks a lot!

I'm glad it's clear to someone. I'm utterly baffled.
The first digital standalone I had was the Zoom MRS1266 and it was touted as a 12 track recorder.........but it wasn't. Tracks 9/10 and 11/12 were stereo tracks which peeved me off somewhat as I hadn't a clue in 2004 what a stereo track was, in that sense. I understood bouncing in stereo in analog but this just seemed confusing. It still does !
Fortunately, the Akai DPS 12i has no stereo tracks {other than ones I 'make' myself} so I no longer have to worry about it. I do want to understand it though.