recording vocals with compression

W

Wrangler

New member
After recording vocals with some compression I notced that they weren't quite as clear as when they were recorded without compression. I was trying to keep them from clipping during the louder parts.
Is this common? Suggestions for compression settings?
Record at lower volumes and screw the compressor??

Feel free to beat me up with advice!
 
Well, I’m no expert on this recording stuff but I can tell you what I do (I think). I usually do use a compressor when recording my vocals and have it set between 2-3:1 ratio with a relatively short attack and shortish release (don’t know the exact ms I have it set at) and a threshold of no more than -10db (less if possible). My goal is to get a good strong signal in there without changing the sound of the vocal too much. Of course when I say, this is what I do…that means I have only done it a handful of times as I am pretty new at this so take it for what it’s worth.

The other option to reduce the amount of compression needed is good vocal technique and good mic placement. One of these I have under control fairly well, the other I don’t and I ain’t telling which :D:D
 
Wrangler said:
Feel free to beat me up with advice!
Click to expand...

Alright. Try rolling off the bass before you compress. Start around 100 hz, semi-steep. If it makes the voice sound too thin, then move it down to 80/90 hz or so untill it sounds good. Then compress. What could be happening: low end transients might be engaging the compressor unnecessarily and mucking things up.

You also might want to try boosting a few db's around 4-5 khz for a little more annunciation . . . and perhaps a little 14 khz for air (most people will tell you 12 khz, but I can't stand that sound any more).

Next, try a longer attack -- might help you sneak in some more transients, beginning of words, etc. before the comp kicks in. Also try a shorter release time -- if it pumps/ breathes too much, then bring it back up. Lastly, try backing off on the ratio a tad.

If it still doesn't sound right, then you need a new compressor. Throw that crappy 3630 away and get an RNC. :D
 
Re: Re: recording vocals with compression

chessrock said:
Alright. Try rolling off the bass before you compress. Start around 100 hz, semi-steep. If it makes the voice sound too thin, then move it down to 80/90 hz or so untill it sounds good. Then compress. What could be happening: low end transients might be engaging the compressor unnecessarily and mucking things up.

You also might want to try boosting a few db's around 4-5 khz for a little more annunciation . . . and perhaps a little 14 khz for air (most people will tell you 12 khz, but I can't stand that sound any more).

Next, try a longer attack -- might help you sneak in some more transients, beginning of words, etc. before the comp kicks in. Also try a shorter release time -- if it pumps/ breathes too much, then bring it back up. Lastly, try backing off on the ratio a tad.

If it still doesn't sound right, then you need a new compressor. Throw that crappy 3630 away and get an RNC. :D
Click to expand...

Ooo...cool...learned something new today. And yes...I too have a 3630 :D
 
Thanks for the suggestions!

I'm just using the compressor that comes with the Yamaha 2816.
I'm still in the "Hey, let me try this!" stage.

I have no idea what a 3630 or an RNC is. Obviously they're compressors, but...........?

If I read enough threads on this site, I'm sure I'll get the picture of who makes the good compressors.
 
He's talking about an FMR Really Nice Compressor. Or called "RNC". Street price is about $180, a great deal and a significant step above any digital compression.
 
Isnt the process normally to record the vocals and then compressed?? I'm confused.... I'm struggling with recording vocals right now, and this may be why.


Jake
 
From my limited experience the answer is – It depends.

When I record my vocals I typically compress in the signal chain. I have a fairly powerful and dynamically versatile voice. What I mean by that as I can go from whisper soft to pretty damn loud pretty quickly. Some songs call for that. Most of the time, for me to capture the dynamic of a performance like that, I need to have compression. Perhaps when I get a better vocal mic my use of compression may be reduced as I will be able to “work the mic” a little better.

On the other hand, I just did a collab with someone on a cover song where the vocal wasn’t very rangy or dynamic (it was actually kind of hard for me to do ;) :D) I didn’t use compression in the signal chain there at all, because I didn’t need it.

Hope that didn’t confuse you more :D
 
I think some compression going in can make all the dif between getting a kickass vocal or an ok vocal (in addition to comping while you mix). Typically, depending on the compressor 2.5:1 with a slow attack of 10-15ms and quick release of 50-70ms really thickens things in a smooth way. Depending on the vocal sidechaining ..to allow low frequency transients to pass through without triggering the compressor can have a pretty dramatic effect.
 
Wrangler said:

Record at lower volumes and screw the compressor??
Click to expand...

The ultimate rule of thumb is: don't use anything that makes your sound crappy (unless you are purposely going for crappy).

Always compared processed signals to bypassed clean ones to make sure the processer is really helping and not hurting. When in doubt, leave it out.
 
Great advice LD.

I finally broke down and bought a couple RNC's. They should be here on monday. Since I'm doing an analog mix I'll probably track with them a little because I won't have enough of them during the mixdown.

Wrangler- Isnt the compression on the 2816 digital? There's really no reason to compress after the analog to digital conversion if you are trying to prevent clipping.
 
How often is your compressor jumping into action during the recording?.

If it's working away you arent setting it properly. Reduce it to jump only on the loudist parts of the tracks and even then only very lightly and gently.
 
TexRoadkill said:
There's really no reason to compress after the analog to digital conversion if you are trying to prevent clipping.
Click to expand...

...unless you are trying to prevent output clipping on the master buss.
 
Re: Re: recording vocals with compression

chessrock said:
Alright. Try rolling off the bass before you compress. Start around 100 hz, semi-steep. If it makes the voice sound too thin, then move it down to 80/90 hz or so untill it sounds good. Then compress. What could be happening: low end transients might be engaging the compressor unnecessarily and mucking things up.

You also might want to try boosting a few db's around 4-5 khz for a little more annunciation . . . and perhaps a little 14 khz for air (most people will tell you 12 khz, but I can't stand that sound any more).
:D
Click to expand...

do you EQ before compression? Do you ever EQ after the compressor?
Just curious

Thanks Chess
 
littledog said:
...unless you are trying to prevent output clipping on the master buss.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you want to be picky about it :D

I knew I should have added 'prevent clipping at the preamp'.
 
do you EQ before compression? Do you ever EQ after the compressor?
Click to expand...

yes and yes.

EQ before compression when you either don't want for the frequencies you are equalising to affect the compressor as much (eq cut) or you want them to affect the compressor more (eq boost).

EQ after compression if i want to perform a boost or cut that will be unaffected by the compressor.

I use the EQ first when i'm doing a high pass and i don't want the low frequencies to affect the compressor.

I use the EQ after compression when I'm trying to cut the mud frequencies out of a track.
 
OK, you guys gave me alot of stuff to try and think about.
Thank you all!
I see there are no real absolutes and others have questions on the subject, too.
I will be referring back to this discussion for some time. I also need to read more in general on compression.

Never heard of RNC before Chessrock mentioned it. I found some reviews on the product. I got the impression it could make a fart sound great. Should I? (buy the RNC...not fart) ;)
 
Would a compressor like that RNC serve as a preamp as well or would the signal have to be amped first before running into the compressor?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top