Recording vocals tricks

BINGO..the reason I hesitate to go full time is I don't have the stomach for it...most people do stink which is precisely why the ones who don't stand out so much..why we even have a music and live industry at all really...We used to keep a cd of exceptionally bad clients for after hours relaxing/ yucks but the outtakes on American Idiot..I mean Idol, have pretty much covered the same ground...I'm not talking about having fun..Have at it! But I probably won't buy your cd..life is too short to suffer bad music, bad food or bad scotch..I'm talking about those same folks who want to be professionals..."make it"...big egos, blowhards...blame you (or your rig) when they are singing off key or you can't make their 200$ amp sound like a modded Marshall or vintage AC 30..can't understand the bars and labels that keep passing on their demos.."But my girlfriend and co -workers think we're awesome dude"
I do think people can improve with practice..I know tons of players who can be very technically correct (and singers too)..but without that gift..that little extra something they just sound good, passsable..not great...I used to review demos for a few clubs and make reccomendations (no finals, just suggestions) until I just couldn't take it anymore..same with studio work. Since I don't do it for a living I don't waste my time with tone, rythym and dynamically challenged people..the last thing I want is my name on at product that stinks..most people know nothing about recording, gear or producing and will judge you on what they hear on a cd or demo..guilt by association...
An analogy..I would love to be an NFL quarterback..big money..pretty girls, retire at 35..problem is I am slow, flat footed and can't throw a ball 40 yards while being chased..no amount of practice and hope in the world is going to change that...a gift is a gift..what one does with it is a whole other story :)

Ray

I'm really not this cynical! :)
 
Yo Chessie & et. al:

If reverb doesn't make a singer sound "better," [better can be defined as more natural, rich, sense of presence, etc.] then why do almost 99% of vocals on current CDs use reverb? Must be a mistake? Nay, nay, it makes B. Striesand [sp] sound better, as well as Cee Cee.

Now there are anomalies; there is that Asian guy who sings off-key and they keep putting him on television--I wonder if he knows how BAD he sounds?

Years back, and I hate to use that phrase, B. Striesand's sister was on the Ed Sullivan show and she was very bad. [so, if you've got a connection, you can get your foot in the door--paraphrase from THE GREAT GATSBY.

The BEST reverb would do nothing for an out of key voice, except make it sound like, mellow--way out of key.

It was always a pleasure to have a singer come on my stage and say, "Give me an 8 bar intro in Eb...." No problem--usually a good singer. But, there was the guy who would come to the edge of the stage and ask if "My girl can sing wit you...." usually a bad singer but fun to watch her, usually.

So, where are we with this thread? Reverb is GOOD--it does good things--everyone, almost, uses FX and EQ when recording.

I think, Chessie, you are just criticizing people who can't sing too well. Most studios will take the money and do the CD whether or not the "talent" has talent. Most studios who mix and print the CDs will take the money rather then send back the tracks and say, "Hey, you can't sing so I don't want your $$$."

My point, not relating to talented or weak vocalists is that REVERB is an essential tool for recording and live performance and it's used by almost ALL performers one way or another. Just listen to the CDs and then try to get the artist to sound like that in your living room, a-ca-pell-a? Never will happen.

Happy New Year to All

Green Hornet

PS I've done a few remakes of professionally produced tracks and the talent involved were amazed at how "rich" and "mellow" the result was. Whoever mixed the tracks left everything dry--no ambience--nada. Well, that's how my ears work anyway.

:D :D :D
 
Reverb is important and IMO does makes the singer "sound better". I have spent many a morning thinking how great I sound when singing in the shower and then later have the microphone tell me differently. It wasn't the sound of running water that improved the sound of my singing, it was the natural 'verb of the room.

My two cents.
 
I actually think reverb is most appropriately used to compensate for the way recordings are made. Recording a vocalist in a dry space using a cardioid-pattern mic, up-close, gets you a great signal to work with, but it does not accurately recreate the way that human hearing works. When you hear a singer live, your ears pick up all of the natural reverberation of the space that tight pattern mics are designed to reject. Reverb adds "space" back to the signal to make it sound more "real" to the listener. It is a case of using an effect to simulate a real-world phenomenon.
 
I don't know what Green Hornet's sudden fascination with reverb is all about. :D :D

Yea, sure, if you like it then knock yourself out. Not everyone does. Norah Jones sounds fine without it and her records sell just fine, but I wouldn't complain if she all of a sudden went crazy with it, either. Whatever floats. My personal experience is that a lot of artists I work with use reverb too much as a crutch; usually because they lack confidence in their own voice. Listening to your bare voice is kinda' like looking at a picture of yourself without a shirt on if you haven't been working out or getting any sun. Could someone airbrush this thing? - Can I have a little reverb?

I certainly have nothing against tasteful, artistic use of it. But I do think the danger with reverb is that it can date something prematurely. Whitney Houston, Sarah McLaughlin, and just about any 80's hair band all have that in common. If you're having trouble remembering what year(s) a particular piece of material was released, I can usually nail it pretty close (usually within a 2-year margin of error) by listening to what kind of reverb was used on the vocals ... or guitar/drums if that fails.

In the coming years, I think it will be a lot trickier to date some of the stuff coming from the indie bands today (ala Wilco, Pedro the Lion, etc.). Maybe it will be the lack of that will date date things all the more ... could be interesting.
 
I found that things you said were really helpfull tips. I understand that people were born with a gift of singing and I understand that people can improuve with years. You spoke a lot about pitch and rythem, but these are not at all my problem. And I think that people rate singers with their ability to be direct on the note and that is not my problem well I'm not a singer with really high notes, but I have my range. I'm also good to reproduce effects naturally made on the voice like Kurt Cobain voice (is he a good singer ?). I've listend to you're tircks and here what I decided to make :

1. Define the natural effects on the vocals
2. Define how the effects will change my track instead of using them randomly
3. record the vocals

And I'm interessed in what you people think are good singer and bad maybe that would help me define were am I in those choices. Anyway thanks for the tips !
 
:D Ahh Chessie:

It's kind of like, we are what we hear?

My fascination with reverb began back around the late 50s. I bought a Motorola Reverb unit, which was not found in many cars. Had an ignition mechanic put it in my car. When I got there to pick up the car, all the other mechanics were sitting around my car listening to the beauty of the unit.

So, I've been interested in reverb for a long time, way before I got into recording. You're right. If you over use reverb, you don't get a good sound. But, you have to admit there are not many singers today who do not use reverb in their vocals. EQ? The same thing. Overuse it or try to "fix" a bad voice--it will never work.

Yamaha puts out some very expensive reverb units. WHY? Because studios buy them and use them.

I guess Pavarotti [sp] might not need any reverb--his is built in his mighty pipes.

I've been recording stuff for quite a few years and did not have any reverb early on. It was fun then and it is more fun now.

But, I've enjoyed the discussion and comments from the folks here.

Happy New Year
Green Hornet :) :D
 
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