Recording my own songs (Guitar&Vocals)

[Hubabuba]

Hi guys!

If you are scared of my long post, just have a look at the couple of questions I got at the end of the post. Would greatly appreciate your help!

So after reading a some posts on the forum and searching all over the net, I am still pretty lost with the wide number of ways to record. I'll list here what I want to achieve, what I already have and what I think I might need.

The main project I wish to record are my own songs, playing guitar (classical) and singing myself. I would guess that playing and singing at the same time would be better for my performances, but I am pretty much scared of the bleeding (even though I do not think it can be that bad), the microphones & their positioning and the whole connections.

What I have that could be of use is my Shure PG57, my powered mixer Yamaha EMX2000 and my guitar (Yorkville E15B Elite, my electric guitar..etc.)

I've read some very nice feedback on the SM58, and apparently it is a microphone to have. I thought about using it for the voice recording while using my other Shure for the guitar, even though I never achieved a satisfying sound with it. Without taking into account the desktop computer, I definitely need an external sound card.


In other words, here is what I would be glad to know:

- I have a Shure PG57 microphone, do I need some other microphone as the SM58?
- Would it be better deciding to record both the guitar and the voice via one or two mics simultaneously? If yes, can I use my mixer or I should purchase a two channel audio interface?
- Is my powered mixer can be of use? Can I use it instead of a mic preamp?
- Which external sound card should I purchase for what good recording software? Having some bad experience with Audacity.


So as you can see, I am lost. All I want is just a decent quality to be able to share my work, which I am planning for years now but loosing the motivation because of my indecisiveness.


Thanks for reading!

Hubabuba

 

[Bane01]

Hi there,

First of all regarding the mics, the SM58 is an industry standard vocal mic. Period. It will have a better frequency response than your PG, no doubt, but what matters is are you getting good results with your current mic? Personally I would use different mics to record guitar and voice, and separately to minimize bleed. Still tons of people record both at the same time, so it can still definitely be done with excellent results. You just have to remember that if you have a large portion of guitar coming through the vocal mic, comping your performance could definitely be tricky.

Your Yamaha seems to be tailored for live sound, so you will need an audio interface. At this point it looks like you could get a 2x2 channel box and be fine. These start out really cheap with awesome units from Steinberg, Tascam, Presonus, and Focusrite.

Back to mic placement, I would ideally put a condenser or ribbon on the acoustic guitar. Read up on some good mic postioning techniques and then start experimenting!

 

[Bane01]

Also, my DAW of choice is Cubase; whose workflow and functionality I find second to none. It was the most popular DAW for home recording last I checked the poll here. And there is a good reason for that: intuitive workflow.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hey Hubahuba,

I do a good bit of acoustic and vocal recording.
Whether we record the two instruments separately or as a live setup usually just depends on the performer and the plan, mixwise.

Either way, my go to setup is a pair of sm81s and an sm7b for voice.
A budget alternative would be pair of samson c01s/rode nt5s and an sm58.

You will need an interface. A two channel interface will, obviously, only afford you two simultaneous microphones.
That means you can do stereo guitar and overdub vocals, or do guitar an vocal live with one mic each.


I work with a guy who is just incredible. His performances are always mint...So I throw 3 mics at him and hit record.
There's another guy who almost always needs some editing and fixing after recording.
I find that bleed makes this a problem, so I do his guitar parts first then the vocals afterwards.

If you think you might expand in the future - Maybe small groups or drum kits or whatever, just jumps straight in with a 6-8 channel tascam interface. It's definitely worth jumping ahead and buying once.
If it's just you and your guitar, then really you just need to decide how much fixing and tweaking will be going on.

 

[DM60]

Hey Hubahuba,

I do a good bit of acoustic and vocal recording.
Whether we record the two instruments separately or as a live setup usually just depends on the performer and the plan, mixwise.

Either way, my go to setup is a pair of sm81s and an sm7b for voice.
A budget alternative would be pair of samson c01s/rode nt5s and an sm58.

You will need an interface. A two channel interface will, obviously, only afford you two simultaneous microphones.
That means you can do stereo guitar and overdub vocals, or do guitar an vocal live with one mic each.


I work with a guy who is just incredible. His performances are always mint...So I throw 3 mics at him and hit record.
There's another guy who almost always needs some editing and fixing after recording.
I find that bleed makes this a problem, so I do his guitar parts first then the vocals afterwards.

If you think you might expand in the future - Maybe small groups or drum kits or whatever, just jumps straight in with a 6-8 channel tascam interface. It's definitely worth jumping ahead and buying once.
If it's just you and your guitar, then really you just need to decide how much fixing and tweaking will be going on.

If you even think you might want to expand, the 8 channel Tascam is being sold pretty cheap (relative I know) on Amazon (others as well) for about $299. That would keep you with a lot of options open for you. If you can afford. If I knew then what I know know, I would have jest went with something like the Tascam US1800 even though I still don't need it. It just gives a lot of options that later might be nice. If you can afford.

 

[Hubabuba]

Thank you for the fast replies!

@Bane01

are you getting good results with your current mic?

Short answer, no. But I assume that it is due to the fact that I did not have a proper audio interface / soundcard to use. And if it will not be, I will purchase a condenser mic for the guitar. Would you rather have a SM57 or 58? Having a look at their frequency responses, they seem to be nearly the same!

Your Yamaha seems to be tailored for live sound, so you will need an audio interface.

So there is no real use of it for now I presume. Thank you for clearing it up.

my DAW of choice is Cubase; whose workflow and functionality I find second to none.

Thank you. Already used it in the past for small projects, I was about to use Pro Tools this time, but I might better stick to Cubase


@Steenamaroo

Either way, my go to setup is a pair of sm81s and an sm7b for voice.

Very nice mics! Wish I could afford an sm81s

I work with a guy who is just incredible. His performances are always mint...So I throw 3 mics at him and hit record. There's another guy who almost always needs some editing and fixing after recording. I find that bleed makes this a problem, so I do his guitar parts first then the vocals afterwards.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge! It will be pretty difficult to judge myself, the best option will be to "try&hear" I guess.

If you think you might expand in the future - Maybe small groups or drum kits or whatever, just jumps straight in with a 6-8 channel tascam interface. It's definitely worth jumping ahead and buying once.

Thank you for the info! Some Tascam interfaces are really looking worth it. But, taking drums apart, why would I need more than 2 or 3 inputs? For "live" recording with the band?


@DM60

If you even think you might want to expand, the 8 channel Tascam is being sold pretty cheap (relative I know) on Amazon (others as well) for about $299. That would keep you with a lot of options open for you. If you can afford. If I knew then what I know know, I would have jest went with something like the Tascam US1800 even though I still don't need it.

Thank you for the info! I am ready to spend 200-300$ on the interface, so I will check it out.


Thank you for taking the time to answer and the great info guys!

Nevertheless, you are all talking about audio interfaces, but shouldn't a preamp be a default while deciding to buy one of those? I heard a lot of people that purchased the M-Audio’s Fast Track Pro (not that I decided to go for this one) and complain that it is of no use without it.

Thanks again

Hubabuba

 

[mjbphotos]

MOST audio interfaces have mic preamps in them. Some may not be as good as others. Stand-alone mic preamps need to be pretty expensive before you can hear a difference from those in a good AI.

 

[ecc83]

You mention "The Band" and the fact that the Yamaha is a powered mixer.

Does this mean H that you perform, playing and singing? If that is the case then your equipment list is all but complete, you just need an AI and perhaps one, better mic, a capacitor (wee one) for the guitar (tho my son prefers an SM57 on his acoustic!) .

I shall therefore (of course!) suggest the Native Instruments Komplete Audio6, why?

It has two very clean mic pre amps in it but also two more line inputs that could take the output of the mixer thus giving you a 4 mic option (of course all the other inputs on the mixer will be available to "pan" into the line tracks 3 and 4). It has 4 outputs so you could try your hand at bit of "out of the box mixing".

Comes with the already recommended Cubase, perhaps one of the top 3 music programs extant?

Forget pre amps. Any AI you get will have them as does the Yammy. Put the money on an AI, better mic and then look at room treatment.

Dave.

 

[DM60]

MOST audio interfaces have mic preamps in them. Some may not be as good as others. Stand-alone mic preamps need to be pretty expensive before you can hear a difference from those in a good AI.

Plus it is a journey. If you had all of the money in the world, yea, everyone would say do this and do that, but most people here understand there is only so much a person can layout (spend in case you're not from the US) at the beginning. This mainly to get you started right and grow from there. But before you get pre's, there are other areas to work out.

But this will get you started with decent results and then you build from there (monitors, room treatments, on and on).

 

[Bane01]

Well between the SM57 and SM58, the former is primarily an instrument mic and the latter a vocal mic. The two are essentially the same except for the grille. If you were to use a 57 for vocals, you would need to get a pop filter, as there is already one implemented in the 58. Different mics work better for different voices, and the mic is probably the single most important factor in getting great vocals results, other than a great voice. As others have suggested, preamps and so on should come later, as most audio interfaces come with satisfactory pre's.

Lots of producers prefer condensers on acoustic guitars, mainly because they are so sensitive. I have gotten respectable results with my Samson CO1. You just have to use your ear to find the sweet spot and then put the mic there!

The only reason I would use a mixer with an interface is if the former's tech specs are superior.

 

[Hubabuba]

Hi!

@mjbphotos

MOST audio interfaces have mic preamps in them. Some may not be as good as others. Stand-alone mic preamps need to be pretty expensive before you can hear a difference from those in a good AI.

Alright, so no need of preamps for now. Thank you.


@ecc83

Does this mean H that you perform, playing and singing? If that is the case then your equipment list is all but complete, you just need an AI and perhaps one, better mic, a capacitor (wee one) for the guitar (tho my son prefers an SM57 on his acoustic!) .

Well, I actually just quit my last band and have no idea when I will be finding another one, as my main goal for now is concentrate on my own music. So AI, and two mics ideally, great

I shall therefore (of course!) suggest the Native Instruments Komplete Audio6 [...] It has two very clean mic pre amps in it but also two more line inputs that could take the output of the mixer thus giving you a 4 mic option (of course all the other inputs on the mixer will be available to "pan" into the line tracks 3 and 4). It has 4 outputs so you could try your hand at bit of "out of the box mixing".

Not sure I understand. Having a look at it I see 2 XLR for the mics. Nevertheless, I can connect the output of my Yamaha to the 2x 1/4" TRS inputs, thus giving me a way to have 4 channels for my recordings? Sounds an alternative to the 8 channel AI if one day I need more than 2 inputs! And, newbie question, but how are the 1/4" TRS outputs connected to my desktop computer?

Forget pre amps. Any AI you get will have them as does the Yammy. Put the money on an AI, better mic and then look at room treatment.

Got it!


@DM60

Plus it is a journey. If you had all of the money in the world, yea, everyone would say do this and do that, but most people here understand there is only so much a person can layout (spend in case you're not from the US) at the beginning. This mainly to get you started right and grow from there. But before you get pre's, there are other areas to work out.

Thank you again!


@Bane01

Well between the SM57 and SM58, the former is primarily an instrument mic and the latter a vocal mic. [...] If you were to use a 57 for vocals, you would need to get a pop filter, as there is already one implemented in the 58. [...] As others have suggested, preamps and so on should come later, as most audio interfaces come with satisfactory pre's.

I see, so better go with the SM58 if I plan on buying a condenser later for the guitar. Great! An by the way, even if I guess it won't change a lot, it is actually a classical guitar (spanish).

Lots of producers prefer condensers on acoustic guitars, mainly because they are so sensitive. I have gotten respectable results with my Samson CO1. You just have to use your ear to find the sweet spot and then put the mic there!

Will sure do! Even if I am already scared of the whole process. It takes hours to get a 'somehow close' sound to what I expect


Thank you guys (again) for the great info! I will do my research on AI and come back here to see what you think about my choices!
For now I am sure to purchase an SM58 and hopefully a condenser mic after the AI.

Hubabuba

 

[ecc83]

"Not sure I understand. Having a look at it I see 2 XLR for the mics. Nevertheless, I can connect the output of my Yamaha to the 2x 1/4" TRS inputs, thus giving me a way to have 4 channels for my recordings? Sounds an alternative to the 8 channel AI if one day I need more than 2 inputs! And, newbie question, but how are the 1/4" TRS outputs connected to my desktop computer?"

The front of the KA6 has two "combo" XLRs the jack is a balanced line in and they are switchable to high Z for a guitar. These will show up in your recording softtware as something like "Komplete Audio 1,. Komplete Audio 2".

Round the back are two more balanced TRS jacks and these will show up as "Komplete Audio 3, Komplete Audio 4" . Thus you can setup 4 independant tracks, probably quite enough now that you are a one man band!

Dave.

 

[Hubabuba]

Hey guys!

So after a couple of days searching and reading some reviews I think I will go with:

- Audio interface: Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6:

+ I am scared to take a fireware interface, as I am not sure what destkop/laptop I will be using for it - which is pretty simple with my choice considering it is a usb interface.
+ People seem very satisfied with the product, especially after going through other "cheap" interfaces
+ It as 2 TRS jack inputs in addition to the two XLR ones
+ It is coming with Cubase and Traktor, which I am more or less familiar with.

I was comparing it to the Tascams (US), Focusrite Saffire Pros (14), Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Presonus AudioBox 22VSL, Prodipe Studio 22 Pro...etc.

What do you think? Any reviews from people that are using it here on the forum?


- Shure SM57/58:

Here I really need help. I have, again, a PG57 that I plan on recording the guitar with. Nevertheless, I need 2 microphones on my guitar, and the time I will decide to buy an expensive condenser microphone, I want to be able and record in a very decent quality.

The microphone will serve as a second microphone for the guitar's recording but also my own voice. The only real difference between the SM57 and 58 is the pop filter, which I can always buy separately as it is pretty cheap compared to the microphones.

So which one? The SM57 or SM58?
Considering it will serve for voice recording and as a second guitar microphone added to the PG57.


Thanks for the help till' now guys, hope you will be able to help me a bit with the choices I made.


Hubabuba

 

[ecc83]

TBH Hub' I would just compliment the PG with a small diaphragm capacitor mic.

Hear's a few under £200.....
Audio Techinca ATM 450 £197
AKG Perception 170* £ 69
SE Eltrcs SEa1 £111
MXL 604 £ 99
Rode NT5 £139

Any of the above will give you excellent results on acoustic guitar
*have two of those and they seem pretty good.

SM57/58? not a lot in it I don't think, maybe the 57 is touch more versatile?

You mention a "big expensive capacitor mic"? If you mean a big side address jobbie you really need a nice room for those but room treatment is a must anyway...

Dave.