Recording/mixing 2 drummers

leaningpine

New member
I want to record a tune with 2 drummers, I imagine I could mic both sets the same way, but what about mixing?

Should I have one drummer play the song with the fills and the other just play a steady beat?

Should I only mix the kick of one drummer or leave both kicks in the mix?

I haven't started recording yet, just wanted to see what kind of ideas you guys had.....
 
Well LP that's a hard one to answer for you are the one that knows how you want it to sound on the final mix.
I would record and have both sets in their fullness and mix to taste for if you start to chop up a set then it might sound weird.
No matter how you look at it that is going to be a very busy percussion mix to that recording.



:cool:
 
I think this is all gonna depend on the requirements of the song itself.
A couple things that jump to mind as ideas I'd personally try in this situation are:
Record both kits as mono (no stereo overheads, maybe just one well placed overhead to get most of the sound that you can fill out with spot mics) and then just hard pan them.
Record one as above, then record the other with wide stereo pair, pan the mono one center and the stereo pair around it.
Alternately, just close mic the elements of one kit and then just room mic the other, and combine them how you need to (maybe roll some highs off the room mics to move them back behind the close mic kit).

I dunno, I've never done it before, but it seems like fun.

This is all gonna depend almost entirely on you getting two stellar, perfectly in sync performances.
Have you decided whether you're gonna record them at the same time or have one try and overdub himself onto the other?

Fun times. I'd be interested to hear which direction you go with it, as well as the final result.
 
I think this is all gonna depend on the requirements of the song itself.
A couple things that jump to mind as ideas I'd personally try in this situation are:
Record both kits as mono (no stereo overheads, maybe just one well placed overhead to get most of the sound that you can fill out with spot mics) and then just hard pan them.
Record one as above, then record the other with wide stereo pair, pan the mono one center and the stereo pair around it.
Alternately, just close mic the elements of one kit and then just room mic the other, and combine them how you need to (maybe roll some highs off the room mics to move them back behind the close mic kit).

I dunno, I've never done it before, but it seems like fun.

This is all gonna depend almost entirely on you getting two stellar, perfectly in sync performances.
Have you decided whether you're gonna record them at the same time or have one try and overdub himself onto the other?

Fun times. I'd be interested to hear which direction you go with it, as well as the final result.

Now that's an idea....record in mono and hard pan L/R the two different sets then your open to fading them back and forth for an effect.
Spooky stuff.:eek:



:cool:
 
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Drum and drummer.

I think this is all gonna depend on the requirements of the song itself.

Record both kits as mono
I dunno, I've never done it before, but it seems like fun.

This is all gonna depend almost entirely on you getting two stellar, perfectly in sync performances.
Have you decided whether you're gonna record them at the same time or have one try and overdub himself onto the other?
Cancers makes some really good suggestions.
The key here is in figuring out if possible beforehand how you want the endgame to sound. I've been recording songs with two drum kits playing simultaneously (in the final mix) for a long time and to be honest, I've done it in different ways and sometimes it's come out better than I expected, sometimes it's been cluttered to the point of being an incoherent, indecipherable mush that you'd need three ears to hear properly.
It's really depended on the song in question. In the days when I recorded to an analog portastudio, the drums had to be mono tracked (I'd use a 4 way mixer but with a mono out) and on mixdown, they'd be panned at varying degrees left and right, not necesarilly equadistant. It depended on which drum track was deemed to be the 'main' one.
I've also done the thing of using the Roland electric drums (in this case, the TD6) as one drum and my then kit, a cheap Mirage as the other. But this was kind of an afterthought as by the time I had the Roland, I'd given the Mirage to my nephew. But for the few songs that carried this combination, the contrast is interesting as I find the electric drums had a thinner sound.
The other crucial question is are the two drums going to be playing at the same time, as Cancers pointed out. I've never done it that way.
I've also used the technique of having one kit played with ordinary sticks, while using chopsticks (yeah, chopsticks !) on the other for a whippier contrast. And then again, I've crunched the two kits together. There was one song my mate and I were doing and it had a reggae flavoured drum pattern for the 'verse parts' so it was quite sparse. We did the first tracking and we said yeah, we like this. But the drums had an ever so slightly thin sound so I asked him if he would overdub as identical a part as possible and he said yeah, OK. At the time, I had this Zoom multi-effects thing that allowed up to, if I remember correctly, six effects at a time. Anyway, while he was crashing away, sorry, drumming artfully (!) I was trying to get to the reverb. But I passed through the severe distortion and the sound of the drums through that was harsh and brutal. I said let's try it with that so we did. On it's own it was fizzing and I'm not sure that I would've used it. But overlaid on top of the original drum track, I liked that saturated drum sound. So we went with that. 15 years on, I still like it.
It's a can of worms you open up with two drum kits, but of the funnest kind. Worms get a bad press, anyway, especially from ladies. :eek:
Recently, having gone back to an acoustic kit, sometimes I get a friend to overdub certain passages that another drummer has done and I'll take out one of the kicks (or snares or whatever) or combine the two if possible or use bits of one and bits of the other, depending on which sounds greatest at that moment, but that's not really what you're talking about.
As a complete aside, I like having different drummers drumming on different parts of a song, for not only drumming contrast, but also for miking contrast. But these are just silly man's games with his toys - it's the endgame that counts.
There have been a number of artists (Adam Ant, the Outlaws, Miles Davies on 'Bitches brew', John Coltrane, even the Beatles tried it) that have utilized the two drum approach but I've rarely heard it work with them because it often sounds like just one kit which rather defeats the object in my opinion. Which surprizes me because I know it can work.
Have a groover, man !
 
I think I might try the mono recording. It seems to make the most sense. It'll be a while before I record it but I'll put up a recording so you guys can hear it.

Thanks alot!
 
Elliott Smith did it on the first song off his final studio album.
Song's called Coast to coast, here's the Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAvqZsRhjwk

Also, I know the Dirtbombs have two drummers who both play kits live (they also have two bass players and put on an amazing show), but I can't immediately think of one of their recorded songs that I'm sure has both drummers playing at once. Look them up, though, and listen to some of their stuff, and I'm sure you'll find something with two kits playing.

I wanted to toss these up as examples of successful bands who've tried it and succeeded with it (in my opinion at least), since Grim had the example of successful artists who weren't able to pull off the two kit effect.

So, yeah, good luck and have fun with it.
 
The Allman Brothers and the Doobie Brothers have 2 drummers if you want to listen to something for refernce. But, as others have stated in this thread, you can do it a number of ways, depending on what YOU want from the tune.
 
Also checkout the Melvins album "senial animal" or "nude boots" I know for sure they panned the different kits left and right. You gotta be spot on though or It will sound like a disaster.
 
another example of two drum kits in a recording, "bangers and mash" by radiohead. it was a b-side from in rainbows, and one of my favorite songs by them. here's a video of them from the basement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQfn97KRFg

admittedly, i'm not 100% sure if they did the studio recording with two drum kits, but it does sound pretty close to how it does live.
 
A Dirtbombs song where you can really hear the two kits in a cool way is "Underdog" off of Ultraglide in Black.
Some of the bigger drum fills sound cool in a super stereo way.

The other band that pops in my head is The Cherry Valence s/t album or Riffin'. It worked really great for them live but it is more subtle the way it was recorded and mixed.

I think it starts with a good arrangement before record is pressed.

edit.. crap I didn't see this thread was old for some reason.
 
The arrangement is going to make or break this.

Sit the two drummers down at their kits and work the parts out. Once everybody knows exactly who is doing what and where the focus is at all times (keeping in mind the focus probably isn't on either drum kit for most of the song), and once everybody can play it and make it groove...then it won't really matter how you record it. Or at least it won't matter nearly as much. :D
 
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