Recording metal/distorted guitar.

M

Muffin

New member
I've been researching lately on the best way to record 'heavy metal' guitar. I've been experimenting with different mics and placements but still need guidance.
In my latest research I've been looking into double micing. I read one suggestion saying to put a condenser mic 12-15 inches from the speaker, pointed at the center of the cone. Then a dynamic mic 2-5 inches away from the speaker at the 45 degree angle pointed at the center of the cone.
Will the difference in distance between the 2 mics effect the sound, seeing as one gets the sound sooner then the other? Also when they give distances from 'speaker to mic', is that from grill of mic to center of the cone?

Secondly, I've heard a number of people suggest 'multi-tracking'. What do they mean by that?

Equipment used:
Line 6 Bogner tube head(HD100)
Fender DT 412 cab(vintage 30's)
Agile Les Paul(EMG 85/81)
Shure SM58
Audio Technica 3035

Any suggestions to get a great metal tone is hugely appreciated.
 
Actually I recently reamped a project with the same head you have and a custom 4x12 I built with Vintage 30's, I have some pics to help you out.

First of all I would NOT go with "a condenser 12-15 inches away" that is clearly stated by some amateur that is clueless with no experience and nothing but a lot of time to make posts online.

You'll think I'm crazy when you see the settings on the amp but that's where my ears took the knobs when dialing it in...and remember this is a modeling amp with some digital preamp that has pre programmed "tone stacks" so who knows what will sound good...typically not the factory settings.

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I also had a Laboga Mr Hector on hand and a Mesa 50 cal but the Mesa had some issues and the Laboga was incredibly scratchy sounding....went with the Line 6....ouch....don't regret it though


Here's the laboga

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Here's the mics on the cab:

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You will get the best results with two dynamics blended together in a configuration like I have in the photo on Vintage 30's. In the photo you see a Sm57 and a behringer xm8500. I also own a audix i5 and could have used that instead of the behringer but truthfully the behringer is better.

When people say "multi-tracking" they mean "double tracking guitar" which is what I call it. I get two *tight* rhythm guitar takes and pan one hard left and one hard right. Remember to add just a touch of reverb to the stereo group channel.

Here's a sample clip from the project I used this setup on you can hear the results:




Feel free to ask any questions! :cool:
 
Muffin said:
I've been researching lately on the best way to record 'heavy metal' guitar. I've been experimenting with different mics and placements but still need guidance.
In my latest research I've been looking into double micing. I read one suggestion saying to put a condenser mic 12-15 inches from the speaker, pointed at the center of the cone. Then a dynamic mic 2-5 inches away from the speaker at the 45 degree angle pointed at the center of the cone.
Will the difference in distance between the 2 mics effect the sound, seeing as one gets the sound sooner then the other? Also when they give distances from 'speaker to mic', is that from grill of mic to center of the cone?

Secondly, I've heard a number of people suggest 'multi-tracking'. What do they mean by that?

Equipment used:
Line 6 Bogner tube head(HD100)
Fender DT 412 cab(vintage 30's)
Agile Les Paul(EMG 85/81)
Shure SM58
Audio Technica 3035

Any suggestions to get a great metal tone is hugely appreciated.
Click to expand...

Hey Muff multi tracking would be multiple takes of the same guitar track then you mix them together.

Now distances are always a general description or a good starting spot. You should have your headphones on while placing the microphones so as when your moving the microphones around you can hear the difference while someone is playing--so what ever sounds good or you hear the sound you want .....that will be where you would want to keep the microphones.
But I never go for a 45 degree angle with the microphone to the speaker I would go straight on.



:cool:
 
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Recordman,
Your settings do look ridiculous, hahaha, but hey whatever works. Did you use those settings and mic placements for the guitar track of the song you showed me? It sounds great. With your mic setup, are you pointing towards the center of the cone or off a bit?
 
Muffin said:
Recordman,
Your settings do look ridiculous, hahaha, but hey whatever works. Did you use those settings and mic placements for the guitar track of the song you showed me? It sounds great. With your mic setup, are you pointing towards the center of the cone or off a bit?
Click to expand...

Yep that exact setup was used for the clip I posted. I think the SM57 was more off the center and the Behringer was towards the center of the cone more...anyway you can't go too wrong.

:drunk:
 
Find the Slipperman post on recording heavy guitar and you'll learn a lot... and be amused all at the same time...
 
my idea

i disagree with the dual mic idea only because of his equipment list. u can close mic with the 58 strait on at the center of the cone or toward the edge. depends on what sound u want. or ambient mic it about 6-12 inches away with the same to positions. You'll get 4 different sounds.

Another thing with two mics is the fact that its completely unnecessary, regardless of the good quality of the recording posted with it, it can be done with one 57 or 58. If it adds nothing, don't do it. and you could run into phase issues, and with limited equipment you may not be able to deal with this problem.

all the same you're right to mic instead some plugin thing. always sounds better
 
Do not cut any mids on guitars in the mixing stage. I tend to boost just a little and I mean a little. As others have mentioned track multiple takes for the same guitar piece. I would also add to that a say use different amps for each take if multiple amps are avail. Pan those multiple takes in the mix differently. Some will say hard left and right. I say not totally hard left and right. I like to give the drums and keys that stereo space (that's just me on this one). The Audix I5 , Senn 421, or SM57 are all good mics for the job.
 
gcapel said:
Do not cut any mids on guitars in the mixing stage. I tend to boost just a little and I mean a little. As others have mentioned track multiple takes for the same guitar piece. I would also add to that a say use different amps for each take if multiple amps are avail. Pan those multiple takes in the mix differently. Some will say hard left and right. I say not totally hard left and right. I like to give the drums and keys that stereo space (that's just me on this one). The Audix I5 , Senn 421, or SM57 are all good mics for the job.
Click to expand...

I want to say that I disagree. On the clip I posted, not ONLY are the settings on the amp ridiculous but I did even more ridiculous EQ in post. I had a cut -3dB at 1000hz with a very wide Q of 0.7. a High pass at 150hz (12dB/octave) and a 6db high frequency boost. There really is no rules, it just comes down to what works.
 
JIMBOdrummer said:
i disagree with the dual mic idea only because of his equipment list. u can close mic with the 58 strait on at the center of the cone or toward the edge. depends on what sound u want. or ambient mic it about 6-12 inches away with the same to positions. You'll get 4 different sounds.

Another thing with two mics is the fact that its completely unnecessary, regardless of the good quality of the recording posted with it, it can be done with one 57 or 58. If it adds nothing, don't do it. and you could run into phase issues, and with limited equipment you may not be able to deal with this problem.

all the same you're right to mic instead some plugin thing. always sounds better
Click to expand...

I also disagree with this. You get a thicker tone with two mics than one almost automatically every time.
 
recordman said:
I want to say that I disagree. On the clip I posted, not ONLY are the settings on the amp ridiculous but I did even more ridiculous EQ in post. I had a cut -3dB at 1000hz with a very wide Q of 0.7. a High pass at 150hz (12dB/octave) and a 6db high frequency boost. There really is no rules, it just comes down to what works.
Click to expand...

You go ahead and kill the natural freq. of the guitar. I bet a box of chocolates if your cutting mids your raw guitar track is crap in the first place.
 
recordman said:
I also disagree with this. You get a thicker tone with two mics than one almost automatically every time.
Click to expand...

Your going to open a can of worms with that statement. Why recorded the same take with two mics on a guitar amp? I don't understand how this equals good. Thicker tone or making it louder?
 
If your room is nice, putting a mic farther back will give you a more complete picture of how the amp (well, speaker, and also the room) sounds, whereas putting a mic closer tends to give you just a partial picture (and little of the room). So the reason you would do both is that you want to accentuate certain pleasing frequencies with the closer mic, but still get a good, full picture with the farther mic. Make sure you're following the 3-to-1 rule, though, which means that the farther away mic needs to be at least three times as far from the sound source as the closer mic or you'll get phase issues. When people give measurements, they mean to the capsule. Ideally, you would measure to the diaphragm, but that's usually protected by a grill.
 
gcapel said:
Your going to open a can of worms with that statement. Why recorded the same take with two mics on a guitar amp? I don't understand how this equals good. Thicker tone or making it louder?
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It's the same principle as splitting the track into two and EQing them differently. There's a book on mixing with Reaper that is almost entirely dedicated to teaching people how to do that very technique.
 
Is not the truth that a variety of methods work and yield different but good sounds ? I've read interviews where both your methods are espoused. So you both win !

The verdict ?
A draw !!
 
recordman said:
I also disagree with this. You get a thicker tone with two mics than one almost automatically every time.
Click to expand...

thebigcheese said:
It's the same principle as splitting the track into two and EQing them differently. There's a book on mixing with Reaper that is almost entirely dedicated to teaching people how to do that very technique.
Click to expand...

How does that work? I'd think that taking 2 tracks of the same take would be equivalent to eq'ing a single track. The theory of it just makes no sense to me.. I've always just used 1 mic and play the part 3x. I get decent results, not stellar. However: ...

I got a buddy who puts 3 mics (a 57, a d112 of all things, and some condensor ambient room mic) on a cab and ends up with like 12 guitar tracks of 4 takes. We just recently talked about this very thing, he said it boils down to tone, and he can't achieve it without that setup. His tracks sound pro, as he does music/tv production for a living...

I haven't put any new songs together since then, but I'm definitely trying a multi-mic approach on my next project. I'm very interested in hearing more on this subject.
 
thebigcheese said:
It's the same principle as splitting the track into two and EQing them differently. There's a book on mixing with Reaper that is almost entirely dedicated to teaching people how to do that very technique.
Click to expand...

Why not just copy and paste? It will sound like garbage either way but at least you won't have to drag out another mic and stand.:D
 
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