Recording Drums

B

Bdrum

New member
Okay, I don't want any secrets but;
How does everyone generally record drums?
Does the scratch track build off of the drums following a click or
Can you track the scratch with the Bass, guitar,Vocals following the Click.
Drums come in after scratch only if the others can be on the click????
I know the standard but I'm wondering if.........
 
here's ok...

Depends on what your kit is like but...this is what I do.

I get the guitarist and vocalist set up with an LDC and just get them to play through the song their doing to a click - that's the scratch track - something that's in tempo that a drummer can follow.

I set up the kit and mic it. once again, it depends, but I'll usually have it set up with a Beyer M201TG on the top of the snare, a SM57 on the bottom, an AKG D112 inside the kick, a pair of Oktava MK012's as overheads, and an LDC as a room or distance mic. Sometimes I'll use an SDC as the bottom snare mic, like the AT pro37r's I have or something like that. I have used a pair of LDC's as overheads and I sometimes like this better, and I've also used Omni mics like the Beri ECM8000's - they're good enough. If I mic toms I'll use a 57 on the higher toms, and an MD421 on lower toms.

Once all mics are PROPERLY placed (much easier said than done) I'll play back the scratch and click in the CLOSED BACK cans for the drummer and let him play along, giving me a chance to make adjustments to the mix and balance or gate mics as need be.

I play the scratch and click when he feels ready and hit record. Pretty simple in principle, takes a LOT of practice to get good at it.

Jacob
 
www.purevolume.com/jacobca

Those are some rough demos but the song's drum tracks were recorded with that method...

All the music I've made and as far as I know most other people's music is made this way. Pick up any CD and it's a good possibility you're getting a sample or this...

Jacob
 
Thanks

I was wondering because the drummer were recording wont have his kit right away, so he suggested that the scratch be played to a click...
 
If the drummer can groove with a click, we lay it down with a click.

We track final drums with scratch gits, keys, bass. Then we replace the scratch instruments one track at a time. For more raw, rootsy music, I'd recommend a live in the studio approach instead.
 
I like to record bass, rhythm guitars, vocal and drums all to a click. I have the drummer play very basic, but still giving enough of the groove. Then I like to have the bass player relay their tracks, then guitar, then vocals, then redo the drums. This way the band still has drums to follow when they lay down their tracks, but the drummer gets to actually work on their part. The problem with drums is that sometimes they get too busy and it isn't discovered until it's too late. On the other hand, if the drummer plays it too safe to keep that from happening, than they may sell themselves short. Of course this whole thing requires a little more time, and the drummer has to be able to work like that. There are many drummers who aren't tight enough to lock up well enough after the fact. In those cases, always get the drums first:D
 
I like to record everyone playing at the same time, no clicks. Since it's multitracked, if I get a decent take with everyone grooving, if there are any problems I can go back in after them and make repairs. There's more "majic" happening when everyone plays together rather than piecing it all together.
 
I record pretty much nothing but heavy metal. I always record drums first along with a scratch guitar and sometimes bass. I like the guitar and bass to at least play along with the drummer so that they keep the right feel but it's always through a modeler and a DI (no amps while recording drums, just headphones). If the drummer can feel a click track, I do that. I always try that but alot of drummers won't or can't do it that way. After that, the guitar and bass are overdubbed to the drum tracks. That's pretty much standard for me.
 
Tracking live doesn't necessarily mean "more magic". What about when the drummer nails his first few takes, but others guys screw up. Then you keep restarting the song, the other guys finally get it, but now the drummer messes up cause he/she is getting tired. Every band however is different. I always try and have a meeting or two with a band before they come in to track. Through those meetings I can usually get a read on the band and what it is they will need to do.

As far as they way I like doing things (drums get redone almost last), sometimes we end up keeping the original click track take. I always set up my musicians as in such a way that we can keep the track if it rocks. This means no amp modelers etc... Our goal at the time may not be the final take, but it is always a possibility.
 
I've always done drums first with scratch guitar and bass, and gone back and overdubbed them in.
 
xstatic said:
Tracking live doesn't necessarily mean "more magic". What about when the drummer nails his first few takes, but others guys screw up. Then you keep restarting the song, the other guys finally get it, but now the drummer messes up cause he/she is getting tired. Every band however is different. I always try and have a meeting or two with a band before they come in to track. Through those meetings I can usually get a read on the band and what it is they will need to do.
Click to expand...


I almost always track everything together, drums, bass, rythm guitar & vocal. I'm always looking to keep the drums and bass but occasionaly I'll keep a rythm guitar track too and I've used parts of the scratch vocal too. As soon as I get a tight take of drums and bass I'm looking to move on to the next song, then I'll go back and do all the overdubs, usualy finishing with the vocals last.

I can't even imagine redoing the drums to a click after everything else is tracked, that must be a nightmare and pretty grooveless(sp?) with the bass

each to their own
 
never record anything but drums first
even if the drummer is bad

start every song with ONE MEASURE (more if the musicians plan to add something to beginning later on) of counting, based on the time signature

for most groups this is gonna be the infamous, 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - play

do it with THE STICKS (snares ring, and hi hats reverberate and sizzle)

sticks make sound in the over head mics and as soon as they've climaxed in volume, then release immediately (the sound completely dissapears in less than 10 ms depending on how hot you got them bad boys in the air). this allows you to "delete" that later on during editing. but keep it for time being

have the best guitartist in the band play rythym along with the drummer (if you're paying attention to order of operations here, make sure he's hooked up first before you've got the drummer counting, haha...) AND make sure you're recording this scratch track

why? several bands start and stop. and when the drummer stops.. its dead air. if its a part where the drummer stops and the guitars keep going. you've got a scratch track now to help your guitarist match up with the drums (when there are none) when he comes back to record the actual guitar sound.

furthermore, i've found no other methods that work right in a multitracking session. other than asking the drummer (cuz its his music, not mine) if he wants someone else to play with him on a paticular song.

only use click if the drummer:
a. knows what one is
b. knows how to use one
c. won't ask you any questions about it

trust me. if they dont pass all three of those, you'll have the drummer yelling at you when the first tempo change comes along, screaming... "your click thingy made me mess up my perfect take"

much love,
-Joey

p.s. to better clarify what i meant by all this was... dont recording anything first and have a drummer try to play to it. it really honestly does not work... even really good in the pocket and rock solid drummers have problems doing this.
 
I very much agree with the click advice Joey but if there's one thing I've learned through hard experience is RECORD EVERYTHING. I mean if the band is warming up or whatever, make very, very sure that the machine is recording. You never know when something is going to happen (those happy little accidents that are too cool for school that they didn't mean to do) that you wish you had captured.
 
Lemontree..... Doing the drums last does require a different mindset, and a drumemr who is capable of doing it. As for "the groove", you would be really surprised at how well it works. In fact, often times the drums will lock MUCH tighter this way with bass, guitars, and vocals. Remember, whenever I do it this way, there is a "scratch" drum track that is already layed down. This means the bass player and guitar players have already been following some drum tracks that were already played in a similar groove to what they had planned. Usually the biggest difference is that the drummer has JUST played the groove and not tried to get too complicated with fills and changes. By the time the drummer comes in at the end, they have already had a good chance to listen to all of the other tracks. They get to really feel how the groove needs to be and lay it down. When tracking like this, they actually get to work on little details. When drums are played first, those "little details" often serve to clutter a mix for the bass and guitar players. With this method, that is much more avoidable.

In the end however, it all comes dopwn to how the band can do it. Some drummers just can't make it with a click. If so, bye bye click and do your best to make sure the track is good enough before you move on.
 
well speaking as a bass player myself I know I could get more feel in my lines if I'm playing alongside a drummer while tracking...you know? you kinda spark off each other...it's hard to explain, but I do admire your skill
 
Who said the drummer wasn't playing with the bass player? When I do the reference tracks to the click, they are all playing together. Then we use those drum tracks while everyone else lays their tracks, then the drummer comes back in and redoes them.
 
Also, for those leaving negative rep.... Sign them please and put why:)

If whomever it is doesn't like the way I do it, don't come to my studio. However, lets be adults about it. Lets understand that everyone has different likes, dislikes, and methods. Mine has been pretty succesful for me:)
 
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