Recording classical guitarist today

J

JahJahWarrior

New member
Hey guys,

Today I'm recording a little demo for this guy. It's going to be a nylon string guitar and his vocals. I just got a Studio Projects C1 and I have Sennheiser dynamic 835. Last time I only had the dynamic and it came out crappy. So how should I angle the SP towards the guitar? How far back? etc.
 
If you have the two mics, then try recording it in stereo with a simple XY mic config. Then you'll essentially have two tracks to mix together if the straight 'stereo' thing just doesn't sound right.

Regarding distance, I've heard that many like to have the mic(s) about 1-3 feet away. For me, I like to have the mics about 6 inches away.

For stereo, I angle the left mic toward the bridge and the right mic toward the 12th fret (from the right hand players perspective).
 
David Katauskas said:
If you have the two mics, then try recording it in stereo with a simple XY mic config. Then you'll essentially have two tracks to mix together if the straight 'stereo' thing just doesn't sound right.

Regarding distance, I've heard that many like to have the mic(s) about 1-3 feet away. For me, I like to have the mics about 6 inches away.

For stereo, I angle the left mic toward the bridge and the right mic toward the 12th fret (from the right hand players perspective).
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You need matching microphones to record in stereo. Yes, an X/Y configuration should work fine, but they need to be the same for true stereo. Otherwise, it's simply two-channel recording - not stereo.

Small-diaphragm condensors are the usual pick. For a guitar, esp. one which you want to sound as organic as possible, 6" is too close.
 
AGCurry said:
You need matching microphones to record in stereo. Yes, an X/Y configuration should work fine, but they need to be the same for true stereo. Otherwise, it's simply two-channel recording - not stereo.

Small-diaphragm condensors are the usual pick. For a guitar, esp. one which you want to sound as organic as possible, 6" is too close.
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I disagree completely.

stereo is what it is, 2 channels, a left and a right....with different audio info on either side.


that aside, I'd put the C1 around bar 12, maybe a foot away.
And the dynamic, over is left shoulder, pointing towards the hole of the guitar....and see if that sounds good or not. Since it's dynamic, you won't get nearly the same sound you will out of the C1, but it's worth a try.

when I do classical guitar for a friend, I usually take a direct In from his guitar (if he doesn't have pickups, maybe get one of those stick ons?)...and mix that center, with 2 condensors set up too for L/R. It sounded beautiful.
 
AGCurry said:
You need matching microphones to record in stereo. Yes, an X/Y configuration should work fine, but they need to be the same for true stereo. Otherwise, it's simply two-channel recording - not stereo.

Small-diaphragm condensors are the usual pick. For a guitar, esp. one which you want to sound as organic as possible, 6" is too close.
Click to expand...

I also disagree, you do not need matching mics to record stereo. Plus shackrock makes a good suggestion with regards to mic placement since they both come from different families.
 
David Katauskas said:
I also disagree, you do not need matching mics to record stereo. Plus shackrock makes a good suggestion with regards to mic placement since they both come from different families.
Click to expand...

Read Harvey Gerst's big thread. Stereo is a two-channel recording, but a two-channel recording is not necessarily stereo. Since this forum is all about recording, it's fairly important that we get our terminology straight.
 
Regarding distance
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...i find that it depends on the mic, the room, and most importantly, the player. i recorded myself playing some classical guitar a little while back through an x/y config with rode nt5's, and ended up putting the mics about 8 in. from the guitar, because it was a fairly quiet/mellow fingerpicked piece. now if i was strumming the holy hell out of it, i would have certainly backed off a foot or 2.
 
I record acoustic guitar (and other instruments) with two different mics all the time. In other situations (grand piano, drum overheads) I use a matched pair. Maybe technically one is stereo and one isn't. I guess I don't really care - I just do whatever sounds best (to me) in a particular situation.
 
I'd suggest a starting mic position 2 feet out from the spot midway between the bridge and soundhole. I've recorded many classical guitars and they usually sound better to me mic'd there than at the neck/body joint, unlike steel string acoustics.

Tim
 
Depends on the room.

A small room w/out acoustic treatment will require close micing to take as much of the room out of the equation as possible. But any closer than 12" will deliver an unnatural sound / risk of string squeek / fingernail/string interface noise, and whatever else. A great room will allow mic distances upwards from 18" to 3 or 5' (yes, that's feet) depending on size of room and amount of ambience and naturalness desired. A guitar resonates all over it's length to a greater or lesser degree, and to capture its' total sonic fingerprint, a reasonable mic distance is essential.

Mic configuration is also mostly a matter of taste and what mics are at your disposal. If you have a figure-8 and a cardoid, then mid-side can be wonderful. ORTF, NOS and any other spaced technique can sound impressive but can suffer from phase cancellation which messes with the image and screws mono compatibilty (if that's important to you - it is to me). The guitar can also sound unnaturally big/wide through speakers that are more than a couple of feet away (ie, over a hi-fi, NOT nearfields). I don't own a figure-8 mic so I use two cardoids in X/Y. I don't have a great room so 18" is my distance (with the centre axis pointed at the neck/body join). If the X/Y sounds a bit tight (which it can) then I use a bit of mid-side processing in the box.

Cheers!
 
littledog said:
I record acoustic guitar (and other instruments) with two different mics all the time. In other situations (grand piano, drum overheads) I use a matched pair. Maybe technically one is stereo and one isn't. I guess I don't really care - I just do whatever sounds best (to me) in a particular situation.
Click to expand...

Matched pairs are particulary important with a piano or drum overheads. For a guitar, the 12-fret sound and sound hole sound can be captured by mics with different characteristics, no problem.
 
A classical guitar

in an untreated room loses it's bass boom. I always have trouble recording my classical. I would say the best possible thing you can do for that situation is to find the best natural reverb and room sound you can find, and then worry about mic placement. It's hard getting that bass-mid sound from a classical to sound full and natural without a good vocal booth.
 
undrgrnd studio said:
in an untreated room loses it's bass boom. I always have trouble recording my classical. I would say the best possible thing you can do for that situation is to find the best natural reverb and room sound you can find, and then worry about mic placement. It's hard getting that bass-mid sound from a classical to sound full and natural without a good vocal booth.
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Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but there seems to be a contradiction in your post. I agree with the part about best natural reverb and room sound, so that you don't have to close mic. But to me, that would mean choosing the largest available space in your place, highest ceilings, etc. Cramming the guitar into any kind of a "booth" would seem to defeat the purpose.

The only reason people use vocal "booths" is because they need isolation. Recording a final vocal as an overdub, one would most likely be better served by getting the vocalist out of the booth as well.

If you are recording a solo classical guitar, isolation should not be an issue, unless you have really noisy neighbors.
 
The best positioning will be largely determined by the sound the guitarist is getting. For a classical guitarist who gets a very strong volume, a few feet (or more) back with a stereo pair is more the norm, but you need a good room to use that kind of mic distance. That gives a realistic whole-guitar-in-the-room sound that serious classical players and listeners usually prefer IME. A good classical guitarist can actually be quite loud.

For a nylon string player who's pretty quiet closer mic'ing may work better. A mic closer than a couple feet picks up only a part of the guitar's overall sound and that can be a good thing... you might find a sound you like by moving the mic an inch at a time and varying the angle. Huge variety in the sound possible with close mic positioning but it won't be ultra-realistic in the way that more distant stereo mic'ing is.

Tim
 
How about Classical Guitar with XY config Large Diaphragm Condensors?

I'm about to begin a good bit of classical guitar recording. There's
been a lot positive said in the mic forum about using the Studio
Project B1, large diaphragm condensor for acoustic guitars, so I'm
thinking about picking up a pair -- they're cheap, $99 each -- and
setting them up in a dedicated recording booth in which the player
sits down and records one guitar after another, creating short
sound files for potentiial buyers to download and evaluate the
guitars.

The reviews of the B1 make me consider not using more conventional
small diaphragm mics in an XY configuration. I know that large
diaphragm mics are more sensitive to off axis problems, but I'm not
sure just how critical this might be. And would I mount them on a
standard XY bar standing up? hanging down? or should I build my
own side mount where their bases are on left and right vertical
bars and both diaphragms are in the center, one right over the
other to get them as close as can be?

Anybody try anything like this in the past? Any observations of phase
problems in doing something like this? Did I just ask one question or
thirty? Did I mention that I'm a little obsessive about things?
Experienced replys greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Ken in Dallas
 
Nothing wrong with the concept of using large diaphragm mics on guitar - some even prefer them.

Unless you have a very sturdy mic stand, you might want to just put them each on their own stand. You can still do an X-Y configuration, or use them as a spaced pair. If one of them is figure-8, you may also want to try the Mid-Side technique. A lot of determining what will sound best is how much of your room sound you want to capture (or avoid).
 
Studio Project B1, large diaphragm condensor for acoustic guitars, so I'm thinking about picking up a pair
Click to expand...
Well it's a good mic and likely there'll be a positioning where you'll be able to get a good sound if the room's got an OK sound. Personally, for classical gtr I haven't been too happy with the off-axis sound quality of any of the budget mic's I've tried regardless of their diaphragm size, compared to better mic's I've got. But I certainly haven't tried them all. On-axis some of them have sounded really nice to me.

Tim
 
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