Recording booth? Treated room? What should I do?

[c7sus]

As far as the second clip goes, I think that is the self-noise of the mic you are hearing. And I had to crank my monitors to -5dBVU at unity gain on my 1402 to hear it, with the looped clip playing full volume through Winamp! My wife couldn't
*hear* it either until I turned my amp up to -2dB at unity from the Mackie. AT lists the self-noise spec of the 2020 at 20dB SPL.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/a0933a662b5ed0e2/index.html

However, I can see how once you get dialed into that sound it would get annoying. Another solution that might take out at least some of that is judicious use of gating in post, which I would imagine to be pretty tricky to dial in and not wind up cutting off some dialog. Of course, the preamps in the mixer you are using aren't anything to write home about either. But the solution of new interface/upgraded preamp/ and possible something-else mic seems like a lot of bread for very little gain audio-wise.

Check out this thread, and specifically post #19.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/421377-mics-low-self-noise-help.html

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hey,
Before you spend any money, get your headphones on and turn up the output level so you can really hear the hiss.
Now hold the mic in your hand and very slowly move it around, pointing it at different areas.
Does the hiss change?

If it does then it's something the mic is picking up and a new mic/preamp wont help.
If it doesn't it's probably just the noise level of the gear you have.

Out of interest, how far are you from the mic? Try it out at no more than 4" distance (with a pop filter), if you weren't already.

If you're looking to upgrade anyway sm7b or re20 would be killer, especially if combined with something nice from apogee, RME or even focusrite.
You're going to want something with lots of gain.
For VO work, a couple of DIY rockwool panels will make a huge difference. I have 4 panels of 4'x2'x8" (which would be overkill) and they really deaden the sound of the room in my recordings.

Hope that's useful.

 

[mjbphotos]

Here's a recording I just did that's about a second of recorded dead air, then silence for a second (no recording), then more recorded dead air. The hiss is very minor, but it's there. Easy to hear with headphones.

This doesn't sound like 'hiss' to me, it sounds like background 'rumble' - noise from house/street/etc. Could even be picking it up through the mic stand. I had that problem with an SM57 on a stand - picking up the fridge vibration from the next room through the floor.

 

[Condawg]

Hey,
Before you spend any money, get your headphones on and turn up the output level so you can really hear the hiss.
Now hold the mic in your hand and very slowly move it around, pointing it at different areas.
Does the hiss change?

No, it doesn't seem to, but it's such a low noise that it's kind of hard to tell.

Out of interest, how far are you from the mic? Try it out at no more than 4" distance (with a pop filter), if you weren't already.

I'm normally about that far away, if not just a touch further.

If you're looking to upgrade anyway sm7b or re20 would be killer, especially if combined with something nice from apogee, RME or even focusrite.

I hadn't heard of the RE20 before. Which one do you think would be better for VO? The SM7B is my current next get.

For VO work, a couple of DIY rockwool panels will make a huge difference. I have 4 panels of 4'x2'x8" (which would be overkill) and they really deaden the sound of the room in my recordings.

Hope that's useful.

That is very useful, thank you! How would I determine where to put the panels?
Thanks!

This doesn't sound like 'hiss' to me, it sounds like background 'rumble' - noise from house/street/etc. Could even be picking it up through the mic stand. I had that problem with an SM57 on a stand - picking up the fridge vibration from the next room through the floor.

I've tried recording with the mic unplugged, and I get the same noise. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the mixer, but I'm not sure how to be 100% on that.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I hadn't heard of the RE20 before. Which one do you think would be better for VO? The SM7B is my current next get.

I have both. They're both great V/O mics.
You'll hear people saying they're similar.....They're not.
SM7B has no shortage of low end. I really like it and use it a lot. RE20 is designed so that it doesn't have pronounced low end when you're up close. It has a unique character...
Eugh. It's hard to describe. I could do you a comparison clip in the morning if you like.

That is very useful, thank you! How would I determine where to put the panels?
Thanks!

If you're going to permanently treat the room then try to draw up some dimensions/a floor plan for some of the guys to look at.
If you're going with freestanding panels, it's hard to go wrong really.
In the past I've made a right angle of two panels and put the mic in the corner. I get a pretty dead sound.
Hell, I'll do a comparison of the two mics with and without panels tomorrow. How's that sound?

I've tried recording with the mic unplugged, and I get the same noise. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the mixer, but I'm not sure how to be 100% on that.

The way to be 100% would be to load the mic input with a 150 ohm resistor across pins 2+3 with phantom power turned off.

 

[Condawg]

I have both. They're both great V/O mics.
You'll hear people saying they're similar.....They're not.
SM7B has no shortage of low end. I really like it and use it a lot. RE20 is designed so that it doesn't have pronounced low end when you're up close. It has a unique character...
Eugh. It's hard to describe. I could do you a comparison clip in the morning if you like.

I would really appreciate a comparison clip. They both sound like solid mics. Thanks!

If you're going to permanently treat the room then try to draw up some dimensions/a floor plan for some of the guys to look at.
If you're going with freestanding panels, it's hard to go wrong really.

I was planning on going with a semi-permanent treatment. Attached with velcro so I don't have to totally re-invest when I move. I don't really have enough room for freestanding panels.
The layout of my room, not including furniture, is pretty much just square, but I have an angled ceiling on one side which I feel might mess with things a bit? I'm not sure.

The way to be 100% would be to load the mic input with a 150 ohm resistor across pins 2+3 with phantom power turned off.

I have no idea what any of that means, other than phantom power. I'll start looking up the other words. Thanks!

 

[Steenamaroo]

I would really appreciate a comparison clip. They both sound like solid mics. Thanks!

Cool. I'm in UK and it's late, so I'll do it first thing in the morning.

 

[DaleVO]

I have both. They're both great V/O mics.
You'll hear people saying they're similar.....They're not.

I agree with Steen, good mikes, especially for long-form narration. I have both mikes as well, and prefer the RE20 on my voice, for audiobook recording. Since it stays mounted on my boom arm 90% of the time, the RE20 gets the most use in my booth. Occasionally, I'll fire up the 7B for a flavor change. They do sound different on my voice. Comparing to your Awkward clip, my voice is a little deeper, but close to your range. So results may be similar. My chain is RE20>>Cloudlifter>>Symetrix 528E>> Lexicon Alpha
Dale

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hey hey...Here's a couple of clips for you.

I recorded one speech with the two mics up to eliminate any differences in position or the way I spoke.
Ignore the plosives on the 7b track. I had the filters off.

Everytime I compare these two mics I think there's something wrong with my re20.
I always end up concluding that it's fine, it has a brand new capsule, but it really sounds weird to me beside the 7b.
(If someone who knows the re20 well could comment, that'd be appreciated)

Anyway,
Clip one = 7b with panels then without.
[MP3]https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=91171&d=1420985726[/MP3]
Clip two = re20 with panels then without.
[MP3]https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=91172&d=1420985742[/MP3]

You can only really hear the room ambience without panels if you turn the clips up pretty loud.
If I wasn't so close to the mic or spoke with any degree of enthusiasm, you'd probably hear the ambience a lot more.

Interestingly, I think the ambience is more audible on the re20 clip than it is on the 7b clip.

No eq, no compressor....nothing. Just a nice preamp.
PS: You will need that. I was so disappointed with my sm7b for the first year that I had it, but I later discovered that it just sounds dull with the dig 003 preamps that I had.
As soon as I bought decent preamps my mic collection really came to life.

 

[Condawg]

Thank you so much for the clips! They both sound fantastic, but I definitely prefer the sound of the SM7B.

What preamp do you use? Do you think the preamps in the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 are good enough to take advantage of the 7b? If I'm going to spend that much on a new mic, I want to get the most out of it, but I don't want to spend $1500 on preamps, preferably.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Thank you so much for the clips! They both sound fantastic, but I definitely prefer the sound of the SM7B.

What preamp do you use? Do you think the preamps in the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 are good enough to take advantage of the 7b? If I'm going to spend that much on a new mic, I want to get the most out of it, but I don't want to spend $1500 on preamps, preferably.

Honestly, I'm a little out of touch on preamps. I bought some console modules a few years back and racked them up, and haven't used an interface preamp since.
There are plenty of competetive preamps getting great reviews out there. Focusrite ISA and GAP Pre-73 get talked about a lot.
RME, apogee and a few others are known for having good preamps too. Those are pretty pricey, though.

For a short while I did use a presonus fire studio mobile and don't recall having any issues, but maybe someone with better experience of interface preamps can chime in.
I definitely remember the box 2 being terribly noisy with the dynamic mics so don't take any gambles!

 

[dustywake]

Along with your new reflection filter, try hanging a packing blanket behind you on a clothes stand, a mic stand or similar. This is the direction that the room ambience is coming from.

ReL: mics - check this out:
Mojave Audio

 

[Johnny Don't!]

Not sure if anyone has said this already or not, but I noticed a comment from someone suggesting you buy the SE Reflexion Filter. Avoid that. You bought the right one already. The Monoprice model is freakin' GREAT. And less than 1/3 the cost of the SE model. The only downside is it is heavy as FUCK. I mount mine to a tripod speaker stand in my home studio, and I have a DIY mount built into the ceiling at my small "pro" studio. I just mounted a 1" gas pipe (one end threaded to screw into the mount I attached to the ceiling using screws) and clamp the Monoprice filter to that; it's extremely sturdy that way. DO NOT attempt to use it with a round mic base; it WILL tip over, repeatedly, and depending on how nice yer mic is, that can be REALLY bad. Fuck it, it's bad no matter what mic yer using.

 

[Condawg]

Along with your new reflection filter, try hanging a packing blanket behind you on a clothes stand, a mic stand or similar. This is the direction that the room ambience is coming from.

I'll have to give that a shot. Thanks!

Not sure if anyone has said this already or not, but I noticed a comment from someone suggesting you buy the SE Reflexion Filter. Avoid that. You bought the right one already. The Monoprice model is freakin' GREAT. And less than 1/3 the cost of the SE model. The only downside is it is heavy as FUCK. I mount mine to a tripod speaker stand in my home studio, and I have a DIY mount built into the ceiling at my small "pro" studio. I just mounted a 1" gas pipe (one end threaded to screw into the mount I attached to the ceiling using screws) and clamp the Monoprice filter to that; it's extremely sturdy that way. DO NOT attempt to use it with a round mic base; it WILL tip over, repeatedly, and depending on how nice yer mic is, that can be REALLY bad. Fuck it, it's bad no matter what mic yer using.

Thanks for the advice! I've got it mounted on a tripod mic stand, and it's working just fine. It is super heavy, but I agree, it's pretty great. Big improvement.

 

[DM60]

Not sure if anyone has said this already or not, but I noticed a comment from someone suggesting you buy the SE Reflexion Filter.

No, I said:

You could also try to get something like this: SE-Electronics-Reflexion-Filter, not an endorsement of this product, this is just for example.

 

[Supercreep]

Get an RE-20 or an SM7 along with a preamp that can push them as soon as possible. Both mics are very forgiving of rooms and vocal mic discipline. You wont need a vocal booth, and your treatment needs will be minimal and proximate, because you have a larger room.