Recording Bass Guitar

B

BigMuffinMan

New member
Right now I only record bass DI as I have no bass amp, and Im not really thrilled with the sounds Im getting (although I am using a cheap ass bass).

Do you think getting a bass amp and micing it would produce better results? Would a sm57 work good for this? are there 'prefered' mics for recording bass?
 
BigMuffinMan said:
Do you think getting a bass amp and micing it would produce better results?
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Whether the results are 'better', only you can say. But though not many seem to do it, miking a bass amp, in my hearing and opinion, sounds fantastic.
BigMuffinMan said:
Would a sm57 work good for this?
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Yep. As would a sm58.
BigMuffinMan said:
are there 'prefered' mics for recording bass?
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I haven't a clue. But whenever I've miked the bass amp, I've experimented with different mics. The one I use on the bass drum, for example. Or the 58 {my twisted logic being that putting it up close brings into play the bass proximity effect}. I don't know how many mics you have, but try them all. Not every bass sound has to be full and warm. Sometimes a more harsh or brittle or trebly bass is what's desirable.
 
Are you using an interface?

Recording a bass with amp is not better...most guys do it DI or direct.

Have you treid an amp sim for bass?

I dont play bass right now (used to) however I know some bass players that use this plugin.

Try the demo.

If you want to buy I would suggest checking ebay for cheaper price.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/ampegsvx/features/

EBAY U.S
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_np...1313&_nkw=ampeg+svx&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Ebay Canada

http://shop.ebay.ca/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=Ampeg+SVX&_sacat=See-All-Categories

I own amplitube 2 for guitar and there product isnt to bad...best thing is to try out demo.
 
BigMuffinMan said:
Right now I only record bass DI as I have no bass amp, and Im not really thrilled with the sounds Im getting (although I am using a cheap ass bass).
Click to expand...
the cheap bass might be the problem, but new strings will probably help.

BigMuffinMan said:
Do you think getting a bass amp and micing it would produce better results? Would a sm57 work good for this? are there 'prefered' mics for recording bass?
Click to expand...
A cheap bass through a cheap bass amp probably won't sound much better than the DI. It will sound different.

A 57 would work. A lot of people you kick drum mics for bass. It really all depends on the type of bass sound you are after.
 
I hate to start off with the 'it's more (all?) about the source', but I'd guess easily 75% of any struggling I have with bass; tone' and mixing, is from there, and nine times out of ten I'll do D/I and mic.
To break it down even further (since I just got another dose of this 'lesson and was again faced with it and thinking about it, 'tone in the ease of mix context is not just frequency' issue by a long shot. IMHO it is more shape ('legato, or a 'swell where it should have been a 'bump for example), and lack of handles' - Handles' being 'round tone of soft plucking and/or away from the bridge, vs having those overtones to work with.
'Punch and overtones are a damned sight easier to have and not need them than the other way around.

..drums and keys' arrived.. 0), anywho, all that aside, bet most of this comes from the playing, the hands, striking with the right fit to the song.
 
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Ok, for one, yes I am using an interface.

I think I might know what my problem is... when I record bass I just record the bass guitar itself directly and just amplify that with the pres on my mixer/in the DAW, no amp sims or vsts (I do compress it though). For me the sound has too much of the "punch and overtones" as one person said, and not enough of the actual frequency of the note Im playing (if that makes sense). I think I may be able to get more of what Im looking for with just eq, and im gonna try the amp sim too, maybe try and run it through some pedals.
 
I DI into a focusrite preamp, then straight into Cubase. I use the UAD Fairchild plug and get a great tone and I'm using the cheapest of the cheap Yamaha basses.

When i post a song here, I usually get good comments about the bass.

As for not getting the fundamentals that you're seeking, you might need to look at your mixing environment and monitors. Is your room treated properly? Are you using decent monitors?

peace,
 
#1 New strings
#2 compress it big time post recording
#3 EQ the tone you want. pre and post recording

DI seems to be the best. Mic'ing seems to add to the problems you need to overcome.

Good luck.
 
mixsit said:
I hate to start off with the 'it's more (all?) about the source', but I'd guess easily 75% of any struggling I have with bass; tone' and mixing, is from there, and nine times out of ten I'll do D/I and mic.
To break it down even further (since I just got another dose of this 'lesson and was again faced with it and thinking about it, 'tone in the ease of mix context is not just frequency' issue by a long shot. IMHO it is more shape ('legato, or a 'swell where it should have been a 'bump for example), and lack of handles' - Handles' being 'round tone of soft plucking and/or away from the bridge, vs having those overtones to work with.
'Punch and overtones are a damned sight easier to have and not need them than the other way around.

..drums and keys' arrived.. 0), anywho, all that aside, bet most of this comes from the playing, the hands, striking with the right fit to the song.
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I agree with this completely.

One question though--why do you always put so many random apostrophes in your posts?
 
so near as to claim 'always' DI (via old school (1989) Sansamp . . . a device I like enough to keep a second newer one in the live kit in case I have to DI bass) Plus mic amp

during mix, depending on all the variables, content and arrangement being the big one's hear, the DI might or might not get used . . .

In a DI situation claiming you are not getting, capturing the the 'fundamental' makes little sense unless something is seriously wrong with analog signal chain (amp, p/u, analog side of the A/D hardware, etc.) but your description is not unusual and probably indicates issues with the monitoring environment.

Roughly speaking my reason for the DI is to capture the transient (which by default will establish the fundamental) the mic might or might not grab this as well, but mic'ng cabinet/room captures more of the character not only of bass but of performance, particularly if arrangement is for bass to be something other then a whump on 1 & 3

DI limits dependent variables, mic'ng adds to complexity at times to point of chaos

I'll use an SM57 (the proximity effect is artifact that is valuable only if you want that specific FX and muddy artificially hyped bass is seldom a benefit to the mixing process) but prefer the MD421 over a Kick drum mic . . . while I do not own one at the moment a RCA 44a, not right on the grill, can also get a great sound (all by itself or in conjunction with DI)

I due tend to spend quite a bit of time EQing bass tracks, not to any specific formula but based first on arrangement and then to try to keep harmonics from interfering with expression of other voices. Automatically compressing the shit out of a bass part is no more useful (for all genre's and tunes) then quashing a vocalists dynamics brick flat. I've been known to compress with long attack times and high ratio's (and appropriate to content release) to control, for example, reverb tails and emphasize transient (which might improve impression of getting harmonics out of the way of other voices). But any compression, again is based on arrangement and content . . . and does not necessarily get applied consistently throughout a recording. Using a full throated, mic'd amp can be as effective in a turn, leading to coming out of a bridge or chorus as any other accent, voice emphasis, e.g. tom fill

while bass strings might not last forever boiling them and subsequently wiping (down) with lighter fluid tends to rejuvenate them
 
BigMuffinMan said:
Right now I only record bass DI as I have no bass amp, and Im not really thrilled with the sounds Im getting (although I am using a cheap ass bass).

Do you think getting a bass amp and micing it would produce better results? Would a sm57 work good for this? are there 'prefered' mics for recording bass?
Click to expand...

As a bass playing sound engineer, I prefer to DI and Mic the bass amp then mix the signals together for the tone I want, however sometimes can only DI and that usually sounds fine.

Remember, the sound starts at the bass guitar, you need a good sounding bass with good strings and a good player, without blowing my own trumpet (or bass in this case:)) I just played bass on a track we were recording and to keep it simple it was a 1974 fender P bass with Elixir strings plugged into the instrument input of a TL fatman then to the recorder. Sounded great, did not even eq during mixdown. If I did not have the Fatman a standard DI still would have sounded great. It starts with the bass, get a better bass.

For micing amps I use a large condenser, my favourite is a AKGC4000B, but a SM57, SM58, Sennheiser 421, or a AKG D12 or D112 all will sound good, but use with a DI as well and check the phase between the DI and Mic.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Farview said:
the cheap bass might be the problem, but new strings will probably help.

A cheap bass through a cheap bass amp probably won't sound much better than the DI. It will sound different.

A 57 would work. A lot of people you kick drum mics for bass. It really all depends on the type of bass sound you are after.
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this^^^^

I DI only on the bass but I use a Vintech preamp and a MIJ fender squier bullet bass from the 80's. I don't think I would get much better mic'ing an amp using that bass. I am pleased with the results.
 
I record bass direct into my preamp (a JoeMeek 3Q), and then straight into Cubase.

I tend to record one dry track, and one using a bit of compression with the compressor on the 3Q. From then I'll either pick the one that sounds best, or use a blend of both. If I had a bass amp I'd probably throw a track of that in too. My method for recording and mixing bass is the probably the thing that varies most from tune to tune in my recordings.
 
mixsit said:
To break it down even further (since I just got another dose of this 'lesson and was again faced with it and thinking about it, 'tone in the ease of mix context is not just frequency' issue by a long shot. IMHO it is more shape
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This, really. I struggled to get a bass sound I was happy with for years. After a lot of experimentation and a bit of gear whoring, I have a very nice bass (a custom I picked up for cheap after someone ordered it, couldn't afford to pay, and the luthier used it as a shop loaner for five or ten years before deciding to sell it just to get it out of the shop) running into a Sansamp RPM, so the source wasn't the issue, but it seemed like no matter what I did or what I tried, it sounded mushy and indistinct.

What I finally traced it to was a combination of technique and treatment. Basically, I wasn't a very good bass player (I'm a guitarist, and play bass like one) so my basslines weren't terribly even. To fix this, I relied on compression, and ended up rolling off a lot of the high end to clean up the attacks. The result was not pretty. :)

So, I started doing two things differently. First, I began tracking bass first, so I'd have to really focus on it, and started recording tighter performances. This helped tons. Second, since I noticed the bass sounds seemed "better" when they went through an amp with a bit of grit, I began bi-amping, splitting the signal (after some experiment using real amps) through the Sansamp and recording both the "unaffected" DI output, and a gritty, distorted one from the preamp itself. The RPM's preamp distortion blows, it's kind of overly crunchy and edgy and isn't very dynamically responsive, but layered against a clean DI track (with a little bit of EQ to tame the extreme high end) it actually sounds pretty damned huge. Then, I process the two radically differently - I generally highpass the distorted track somewhere in the low mids and leave it relatively uncompressed, relying on the natural compression from the distortion, and let this track take care of the 'punch' from the attack, and then lowpass the clean one to clear out the high end and leave space for the Sansamp track, and then compress it quite a bit more than the distorted one. The result is a bass tone with some grit, a very clear attack, but a very even and controlled "depth."

If you don't have a preamp like this that lets you split your signal, you can kind of fudge it in your DAW. Either record two tracks from the same DI send, or record one and then copy/paste to a new track. Leave one DI track clean, and then run the other through an amp simulator or a distortion plugin. It doesn't even have to be a terribly "musical" distortion, because you're listening to what it sounds like with the clean signal, not without. Give it a try!
 
matttheaxe said:
#2 compress it big time post recording
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Careful here - I'm not sure what you mean by "big time" but one of the biggest turning points for me was realizing that I was overcompressing the shit out of the bass. A good attack adds clarity and definition, so you don't want to absolutely stonewall the thing.
 
I get my bass sounds by putting the bass dirctly thru the mixer,
I set the eq to : i cut the highs -15 db, the mids somtimes flat, and sometimes 0 to -3 db and the bass is going +15 db,
Then after the session, I ask the bass player to stay a bit,
Both of us work on reamping, we set the bass amp to a good sound to our ears, and the I run a sm57 somewhere 4" - 6" away from the amp,(most of the times with a "tent")
and I leave these 2 track for later mixing options.
it works well for me, and I'm quite suprised that nobody suggested reamping in this theard and on others I read.
 
ykarkason said:
I get my bass sounds by putting the bass dirctly thru the mixer,
I set the eq to : i cut the highs -15 db, the mids somtimes flat, and sometimes 0 to -3 db and the bass is going +15 db,
Then after the session, I ask the bass player to stay a bit,
Both of us work on reamping, we set the bass amp to a good sound to our ears, and the I run a sm57 somewhere 4" - 6" away from the amp,(most of the times with a "tent")
and I leave these 2 track for later mixing options.
it works well for me, and I'm quite suprised that nobody suggested reamping in this theard and on others I read.
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I'm surprised that you need to add 15db of low end to a bass. Taking out mids is kinda wierd too, but I supposed it depends on what the bass is. (A rickenbacker 4001 would probably need settings like this)
 
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