Recording Bass Guitar... Direct, Mic'd ..Both??...

WERNER 1

WERNER 1

Member
Hey guys, I've been having a bit of trouble getting the "right" sound for my bass guitar recordings....I like a nice deep yet very defined sound,..maybe reminissant of some disco'ish tunes of the 70's....It just seems that you can both hear the bass clearly as well as "feel" it......yet it's not mushy or muddy at all.....but more deep,warm, and punchy...

I've tried both mic'ing my 4x10 cab as well as running direct through my DMP3 preamp......and I've also went as far as using the AmpegSVT plug in software (Which I think sounded the best IMO..) ...

Anyway, I was looking for some input as to different techniques in recording, EQ'ing, and "mastering" the bass tracks.

Just to clarify, I have no need for distorted bass or the honky midrange boink,boink sounds of the 80's metal scene (Even though that's the stuff I LOVE to play on guitar :o )

I really wish I could find a song that had the sound I was looking for in it, but usually when I hear a song with that in it, I'm driving down the road :(

Here's a little clip that I made the other day....this isn't exactly what I want, but it's as close as I've came thus far...:


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=410286&songID=5529228


Thanks in advance,

Rick
 
Not sure if this is an option for you... but a while back a friend left one of his bass cabinets at my house for a while, and while I was messing around with using it as a low-frequency kick mic, I decided to try recording bass from my bass amp with it. I think the beatles did this for the White Album, actually. Anyhow, I set it up directly across from the live bass amp, about half an inch between them, and the sound was incredible. The two cabs were the same size and speaker configuration, which was probably really important looking back on it, but the best way I can describe it is like an amplified bass with no room noise or reverb whatsoever. I'd strongly reccommend trying this out if you can- I found it to be a perfect compromise between the dryness and clarity of a direct-in bass recording and the punchiness and oomph of an amplified bass.

It sounded best with the live cab turned up as loud as it could safely go, to the point where it was physically compressing a little bit at the speaker.

Hope this was helpful,
Theo
 
BEST option is to record the best mic'd cab arrangement you can come up with & a DI simultaneously if you can.
Following this I wait to see how the bass sits with the other instruments in the mix and in relation to panning position.
Depending on these I would possibly roll off some bottom end if needed & almost always give a major tweak, 5+dbs, to 3khz.
The tweak will give the bass some definition & cue the ear into the bass line and the bottom end will make more sense.
 
Here's a trick on how to make the bass fatter. I don't know if it's what you want but it's worth a shot (although I think you're tone is very nice indeed!).

Take the DI track, low pass it extremely at 80 hz, or 100 hz, somewhere in that region. What you wanna do here is keep just the fundamental and maybe an overtone or two. Now use a medium to light distortion on this track. You'll most likely be able to push the distortion more than usual because you are not clipping any high overtone. Most likely, the sounds will become alot bigger. If the sounds gets too buzzy with a nasty high-end, use a different distortion or use a low pass filter after the distortion. Now you have a track that consists or pretty much nothing but meat. Add this to you're original tone and see what it does. You might wanna high pass the original because the new track will have lots of fundamental as well.
 
Sorry for the delay in a reply but I've been VERY busy with work :mad:

I'll try and work on using those techniques this week as I get a chance...

As I pondered on this subject all week I began thinking that things probably need to start being rolled off around 65Hz or so (???) as most car stereo systems that just employ "regular" door and deck speakers typically only go down to 75Hz or so (??)....and I know I've heard this punchy sound that I like on my car/van systems ----- Im I way off bass here??

Thanks,
Rick
 
the answer to your first question is that you've gotta have the sound in the first place. so if the bass itself doesn't sound like what you're aiming for, you're fighting a losing battle. you've also gotta have a player who can bring that sound out of the bass via technique. that said.....

i tend to DI bass b/c typically a bass amp has a whole lotta stuff i don't want (noise, rattle, rumble, hiss, etc). but i'll often mic it if it sounds good (or interesting) just to have it. sometimes i'll reamp something back through a small (8in) amp just to give the mids some twang.

halion's suggestion about the low-passed distorted track is a great one.

also, experiment with rolling off the low end on (high-passing) the other instruments in the song. electrics, acoustics, mandolins, vocals, snare, overheads, anything that's not directly contributing to the low end in the song. see if that doesn't help clean things up for you down there. it's kinda like behind the toilet--you'd be surprised how much gunk can be down there.

how are you monitoring and how is your room treated? accurate monitoring and a well basstrapped room (especially if it's a small room) are crucial to getting bass to translate.

oh, and i like the Ampeg plugin a whole lot too. :D


cheers,
wade
 
This is always a problem in smaller studios. Most of the time its simply the players' lack of technique. Other contributions to this are the selection of the bass, like was said, the BASS has to sound like that at the source or theres nothing you can do to really dial it in....close maybe....

That 'punch' you describe usually only comes from a passive bass. Fender comes to mind....Now before all you bass players come down on this, think about all the damping and the settings you use to get that mid-seventies disco thump...Those of you who were around then know what I'm talking about.

A small amp head and a single speaker in a tight cabinet....a P-Bass with halfrounds and a small rolled up piece of foam under the bridge....played with a sturdy pick. Instant Average White Band.....

The amp should be a tube head...Fender tone stack or Ampeg.......

OR....An SWR Interstellar Overdrive Preamp....OR an Alembic preamp.....OR....A SAnsAmp Bass Driver will also work..

I always recorded (back in those days) with my Fender Showman head through a Mitchell Sand Cabinet with 2-12" EV's in it. Fretted and Fretless Pbasses, a 62 and a 73.....Mostly RotoSound Strings....for that Motown Sound, it was the black flats and the funky stuff with halfrounds or roundwounds...

Micing the amp will require you to play at a LOW volume. But you can use your best condenser on it and never harm it. And theres nothing quite like that sound.....It'll be round, full, punchy, complete.
 
Do you happen to have any clips or suggestions of songs from that era that happen to display "this sound" ??.......just to make sure we're on the same page....which I think we are :)

I'm running a Geddy Lee Jazz bass with the American Vintage pups....My "rig" is a Hartke 5000 head and an older peavey 4x10 cab.....but for that sound clip I was going direct with the AmpegSVT software plugin.... I also have a SansAmp Bass DI (Which is great by the way ;) )

Thanks,
Rick
 
if you like the tone youre getting then maybe you should look elsewhere in the mix for the clarity problem. what im saying is take some low end out of everything else and maybe try to give the bass its own spot in the frequency spectrum (not easy). i find thats the best way to get bass clarity.
 
That's just it,....I think I like my tone for the most part as a stand alone bass sound,....but in the mix of a song,...I think it's a bit muddy and undefined...and/or lacks "punch"

Even if I rolled off the bass of every other instrument in the mix,...I don't think that would provide me with the sound I'm looking for (??) :(

Rick
 
WERNER 1 said:
Ok....I just happened across this track the other day and thought that this has a pretty good display of the type of sound I'm looking to achieve.....somewhat anyway...

Now I don't even like this style of music for the most part, but I thought the bass in it was very deep, tight, and percussive (??)

Here's a link to a short piece of this song: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=410286&songID=5541040

thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Just for the record, that's a song by QUEEN. I can't believe some idiot simply took the record, mumbled some stupid shit over it, and then put his name on it. He should get sued...but chances are, he doesn't a pt to piss in anyway.
 
Yes, it is some DJ'ish type of Remixed version of Queens "Another One Bites The Dust"....and it's actually from the movie sound track of "Small Soldiers" ....there's also a version of Rush's "Tom Sawyer" on there as well ....with "scratchin'" on it no less! :eek:

Regardless if I like the style or what they did to those classic songs....you've got to admit the bass on there is smokin'! :p
 
1. technique of the player = there is this thing that happens when a great bass player plays a great track. His/her tone and dynamics are consistent and this helps when mixing.

b. We've had a lot of success with going direct, good player. Then compressing the hell out of the track in mixing.

III. We've also had success with a combination of direct and miked cab. Although, again, we heavily compressed the two together, and the blend between them was critical.

four. If your room sucks, the bass is going to suffer the most in mixing. make sure you're not being fooled by bad control room acoustics.
 
RAMI said:
I can't believe some idiot simply took the record, mumbled some stupid shit over it, and then put his name on it
Click to expand...

That would be Wyclef Jean. Why should he be sued for it? I'm 100% certain he's had permission from the copyright owners of the track (whoever that may be - remaining members of Queen I guess) and no doubt they get royalties for it. The people who made Small Soldiers are hardly gonna have a song on it that breaches copyright are they?
 
pezking said:
That would be Wyclef Jean. Why should he be sued for it? I'm 100% certain he's had permission from the copyright owners of the track (whoever that may be - remaining members of Queen I guess) and no doubt they get royalties for it. The people who made Small Soldiers are hardly gonna have a song on it that breaches copyright are they?
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. (and so much for my crack about "no pot to piss in" :eek:)

It was on a Soundclick page, so I thought it was just some home-recordist. I'm sure Mr. Jean got permission to do what he did. I like Wyclef, but I found that boring. I'm sure in the context of the movie (which I didn't see) it makes sense.

And yes...it's a cool bass sound.
 
I like micing the cab and using a DI. I'll usually use the DI for the clean low end and compress the hell out of the cab for more punch. An MXR compression pedal or a Boss Blues Driver before the amp can also help.
 
keep 'em separated

Separation within the stereo space is critical. I like the kick drum dead center, the bass about 15 degrees L or R of that and, if there's a single electric rhythm guitar, pan it on the opposite side. Of course, every song is different.
 
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