Recording an enamble

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Dr_simon

New member
This is scaring me a bit. I have landed a gig recording a 5 or 6 piece ensemble a week today. Im used to doing rock however this is pretty new.
At my disposal are:

2x MOTU 828s going into a G4 powerbook running Logic Pro7.2
Pres: 1 x Avalon vt737sp, 1 x Avalon U5, 1 x ART TPS, 1 x Focusrite octopre (with ADAT card) and 1 x Focusrite platinum Voice master Pro.

Mics: AKG 1x C414 BXLII, 3 x AKG C1000s, 1 x BLUE kick ball, 1 x blue Baby Bottle, 1 x Shure KSM44, 2 x Sure PG81s, 4 x SM57s, 1 x SM58 and an NT2A

The lowdown is:

Cello KSM44 into avalon vt737 (distance) & C1000 into octapre (close)

Flute C414 and C1000 both into an octopre

Bass split signal with an ABY box into U5 direct and mic bass cab with a BLUE kickball into an octopre

Guitar (nylon strings) NT2A into an octopre (may ask her to use my Variax !)

Bongos C1000 into octopre

Vox Focusrite PVMP with a BLUE Baby bottle

up to 3 backing vox (whatever mics I have left (PG81s and SM57/58s into TPS / MOTU 828 pres))

Space and time is limited so I think Im going to do the best I can with the 3:1 rule & set everything to hypercardioid then overdub as necessary.

Isolation is probably going to be a problem however if I can spread everyone out life should get a little easier.

Any thoughts / suggestions on mic / pre choice ?

I have never done this before and although Im quite sure I can do a good job Im still a little nervous. Im thinking the above is a good starting position however Im allowing an hour to get mic positioning right.

They are telling me they have 16 songs ready to go. If they can do everything right first time I still think this is hopelessly optimistic ! Come to that I think half that number is optimistic however I have said to them that it is really up to them. If they have there act together... who knows !

Thanks

Simon
 
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What is your definition of distant and close on the cello and flute? In both those cases, I'd set the better mic at the appropriate distance, and forget about the C1000s. It would really suck if the C1000s had the right placement, and the 44 and 414 were just picking up the room (or bleed, depending on your perspective).

Of course you need to expect to have to shuffle around the LDCs depending on what works for the vocalist. The backing vocals might appreciate the 44 or 414 on figure 8 instead of a PG81. Vocals are important. In that case, maybe you should plan to stick with the C1000s, probably not bad on flute but I might consider trying a PG81 on cello, or it might be too scratchy. Depends on the sound the band wants--do they want a scratchy cello? A breathy flute? I like either one, but not together.

I would under no circumstances ask the guitarist to use your Variax instead of her nylon string. No matter how good the emulation is, it simply won't have the complexity of a real acoustic instrument, nor the interaction with the other instruments in the ensemble (bleed is good). Of course the fingerboards are dramatically different too, and it could confuse her performance at a time that neither of you need the added stress.

To summarize those two points, you are overestimating the problem of bleed. Bleed can be your friend, especially with a well rehearsed ensemble. Set the mics on whatever pattern gives the best sound, not just on hypercardioid. That will glue together the tracks and make it sound like a real performance, rather than an overdubbed assemblage. If they can cut 16 songs straight through, your job is to capture that vibe and keep out of the way.
 
Wise words and they are appreciated.

I take your points, I will keep the variax at home and use a couple of C1000s on backing vox as a starter.

I was figuring that this was only a starting point and that mics would get shuffled as required.

I also thought that I'd overdub the vocals later however I think I will keep the overdub plan as a last resort.

Recording without the safety-net of Line6 ! Well I guess it is all part of growing up !
 
How good is the room you will be in? Especially for a more "organic" sounding ensemble I am personally more apt to get a great sounding room, place everyone in resonable posotions (think old school Capital recordings, everyone in one room with Frank and Dino up front, drummer in the back, and others in between), put up a Decca tree/space omni/ M/S and close mic here and there for fill in.
 
Unfortunately this is out of my hands, Im still waiting to hear. It will either be in an old deconsecrated church (Im hopping I don't get hit by lightening) or a recital hall.

In addition to the close miking, I was thinking of using the PG81s set up in ORTF config. as ambiants just to see what it would sound like. I don't have a problem running extra lines into the laptop and I don't think disk space is likely to be a problem. If I don't like it or it is causing phasing or whatever I can always bin it later !!

I think the church will be bad as it is going to be stray 'verb tails everywhere (high ceilings etc etc) and the recital hall (belongs to the Univ. of Iowa music school) will be great however I'm just going to have to work with what they can get.

Any tips / tricks / word of advice are as ever welcome !
 
Dr_simon said:
Unfortunately this is out of my hands, Im still waiting to hear. It will either be in an old deconsecrated church (Im hopping I don't get hit by lightening) or a recital hall.
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If it's deconsecrated, no worries ;)

In addition to the close miking, I was thinking of using the PG81s set up in ORTF config. as ambiants just to see what it would sound like. I don't have a problem running extra lines into the laptop and I don't think disk space is likely to be a problem. If I don't like it or it is causing phasing or whatever I can always bin it later !!
Click to expand...

That's a good idea if you have them to spare.

I think the church will be bad as it is going to be stray 'verb tails everywhere (high ceilings etc etc) and the recital hall (belongs to the Univ. of Iowa music school) will be great however I'm just going to have to work with what they can get.
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No, actually almost any church space would be great. You might be confusing live sound with recording--with a verby church, gain before feedback, intelligibility of speech, etc., are huge problems, but the nature of recording is very different. You aren't broadcasting the ensemble through the space, you are recording it. Any reverb tails that get back into your mics will a) be relatively quiet compared to the signal and b) sound good.
 
Thanks mate, you are helping a lot and I appreciate it.

I guess that one the day, I'm just going to go out there and find my sweet spots ! If people get impatient, well I can always talk the buggers down !
 
Live in a Church

About 15 years ago I was playing in a South American folk band - 7 players with various wind, string and percussion players. We recorded live in one of the biggest cathedrals in eastern Australia, just into a stereo pair. The engineer spent about 2 hours positioning us and the mics, then we just played for two nights straight. We where very happy with the sound, though it meant there was no real control over balance in the mix down.

Get the positioning right, and let them play!
 
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