recording acoustic guitar
- Thread starter Yesman
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TalismanRich
Well-known member
Why would using a microphone take up any less soundstage than a DI? Are you using two mics and panning left and right for a wide stereo spread? If so, then move the two channels together, and just use the differences to adjust the tone. Pay attention to phase cancellation if you do.
There are lots of ways to record an acoustic, and mics have been used for many decades. DI is actually a "recent" development compared to a mic. Many older DIs sound mediocre compared to a good mic, especially the piezo bridge pickups. Newer systems are much better, but I still record my Taylor with mics, not the Expression system.
There are lots of ways to record an acoustic, and mics have been used for many decades. DI is actually a "recent" development compared to a mic. Many older DIs sound mediocre compared to a good mic, especially the piezo bridge pickups. Newer systems are much better, but I still record my Taylor with mics, not the Expression system.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
Then I'm confused about how it is taking up too much soundstage, as it's a mono signal. Perhaps a bit of an audio sample would help. 20 or 30 seconds in MP3 format should be plenty to let us try to hear what you are hearing.
spantini
COO of me, inc.
In using one mic and no FX or other processing, just mic to interface and recorded dry, strumming constant chords on my acoustic was just a mess audio-wise. Lots of low end garbage just filling in at that end and detracting from the upper frequencies. Trimming it away with a high pass filter cleaned it up quite a bit and interfered less with the rest of the instruments. Multiple recordings of the acoustic could then be used to fill in the soundstage without occupying too much of the space.
Also, a good portion of that low end garbage came from sloppy technique of a combination of incorrect chord finger placement with fretting hand as well as strumming the wrong strings or strings which shouldn't be strummed with certain open chords. They introduced unwanted notes and frequencies which conflicted with each other.
Also, a good portion of that low end garbage came from sloppy technique of a combination of incorrect chord finger placement with fretting hand as well as strumming the wrong strings or strings which shouldn't be strummed with certain open chords. They introduced unwanted notes and frequencies which conflicted with each other.
Gtoboy
Well-known member
You may have to limit dynamic range using compression and force the track to feel "smaller" using very short delay (less than 20 msec) , filtering, eq and reverb. Acoustic guitar, or even a close mic'd electric's speaker can generate a large spectrum of frequencies, as do many other instruments. Mixing is about choices, what should be loud, near, far, quiet , etc at any given time.
Think of it this way-you have recorded a guitar part that is essentially the same as you putting your ear right where the mic was. It's gonna be loud. You can reduce the apparent size by moving the mic farther from the guitar if your room sounds pretty decent or at least your basic HF reflections are under control. If your room doesn't sound great then you have to close mic and "simulate" the mic being farther away using delay, reverb, eq and compression.
Think of it this way-you have recorded a guitar part that is essentially the same as you putting your ear right where the mic was. It's gonna be loud. You can reduce the apparent size by moving the mic farther from the guitar if your room sounds pretty decent or at least your basic HF reflections are under control. If your room doesn't sound great then you have to close mic and "simulate" the mic being farther away using delay, reverb, eq and compression.
Hey guys i will try a few things and get back to you with samples. I watched this video from warren i love the way the 57 sounds. Exactly what i am looking for. I was using a tlm 103. I feel it gives me way too much detail and clarity in the wrong ways. Also i am going to try and swap strings maybe lighter guage like 10. Also i have another guitar that has a much easy open lighter sound. I will be back with those samples.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
Without hearing the mix you're working on, my first guess is that you have not used EQ to place the different components of your mix in their own "space" in the mix. It's a subtle thing, but with something that has as wide of a range as an acoustic guitar, especially mic'd with a large diaphragm condenser, maybe a bit close-mic'd, you'll have guitar "everywhere" in the audio spectrum (i.e., frequency-wise). (When you used the phrase, sound stage, I think many here would think you're talking about the width/panning, i.e., "physical space" of the instrument, and not the frequency width.
With a sensitive mic like the TLM, you may want to roll off some upper end, or adjust the mic's position if it's getting too much of the finger-noise. If it's room noise/flutter-echo, then acoustic treatment can be important. Mic placement and the recording space is much more important with acoustic instruments. And, the mic choice can make your job easier or harder, so definitely try the SM57 - it may be all you need when the guitar is in a more supporting role.
So, first, the guitar is more like a cello than a violin, as its bottom frequencies share the same couple of strings of a bass guitar, so if you've already got a bass, or kick, stomp, whatever down there, you probably want to low-shelf some of the bottom out. Then, if you've got male vocals, well, you'll need to carve a little space for that. On and on. It's not a big carve out, just a couple dB, and probably a little wide. If you've got something else that's the predominant part here and there, like a vocal, or other solo instrument, they might need a dB or two boost when they're supposed to be more noticeable (use automation to start, or break the track up and apply "clip-gain"), Etc. Use the PAN control to place things where they're in the middle or to the sides, to suggest importance. Work on the static mix until you can hear each part on its own.
Good luck!
With a sensitive mic like the TLM, you may want to roll off some upper end, or adjust the mic's position if it's getting too much of the finger-noise. If it's room noise/flutter-echo, then acoustic treatment can be important. Mic placement and the recording space is much more important with acoustic instruments. And, the mic choice can make your job easier or harder, so definitely try the SM57 - it may be all you need when the guitar is in a more supporting role.
So, first, the guitar is more like a cello than a violin, as its bottom frequencies share the same couple of strings of a bass guitar, so if you've already got a bass, or kick, stomp, whatever down there, you probably want to low-shelf some of the bottom out. Then, if you've got male vocals, well, you'll need to carve a little space for that. On and on. It's not a big carve out, just a couple dB, and probably a little wide. If you've got something else that's the predominant part here and there, like a vocal, or other solo instrument, they might need a dB or two boost when they're supposed to be more noticeable (use automation to start, or break the track up and apply "clip-gain"), Etc. Use the PAN control to place things where they're in the middle or to the sides, to suggest importance. Work on the static mix until you can hear each part on its own.
Good luck!
spantini
COO of me, inc.
As an outside observation, watching artists and bands perform on stage, you may see one or more strumming their rhythm guitars but you won't really hear them. They're low in the mix whereas the rest of the band is prominent. Those other instruments produce cleaner sounds which amplify and record well. Many lead singers will often stop playing their rhythm guitar in selected spots and you won't notice any difference, even when they come back in. Rhythm guitars are a messy instrument.
ok i think it was the TLM103 on the guitar that i did not like. I did a quick strum with the sm57 and its much better for me. I added high pass and some high end and i am getting closer to what i am looking for. no other signal processing. I will try going from a 12 to 10 guage next although i dont mind the 12s with the sm57. i didnt put up my acoustic treament for the recording just wanted to quickly try it out. alot of background noise. But otherwise it was successful!
Also in case you wanted to know. going into a great river preamp ME-INV with output all the way high and gain saturation as low as i can to get a good line signal. i wanted as little saturation as possibly as i wanted a cleaner crisper sound. i didnt want a warm tone. i think it was at 35 gain. sm 57 takes a lot of gain to power its very low output.
Also in case you wanted to know. going into a great river preamp ME-INV with output all the way high and gain saturation as low as i can to get a good line signal. i wanted as little saturation as possibly as i wanted a cleaner crisper sound. i didnt want a warm tone. i think it was at 35 gain. sm 57 takes a lot of gain to power its very low output.
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im not even a guitarist im literally just trying to get a beginning of a song done lol. which is exactly those chords strummed just like that. but i think the last adjustment i make will be to change strings to 10's but also i have another guitar that is bright and lighter i want to try that too. it will mostly be strumming and a bit of picking.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
What kind of room are you recording in? I was going to suggest moving the microphone back a little bit to maybe make it a bit less "intimate", but listening to the sample, there's some kind of background noise that I'm picking up. I couldn't tell if it was breathing, or something else, but was pretty clear, and if you move the mic back, and compensate with gain, it could intrude on the guitar.
It might be worthwhile setting things up and getting levels set, then just record some silence to see if there is any background noise that you might need to address. I hate it when I get thing set up and then I hear the freezer cycling, or the neighbor has his lawn mower running. Mics are sensitive!
It might be worthwhile setting things up and getting levels set, then just record some silence to see if there is any background noise that you might need to address. I hate it when I get thing set up and then I hear the freezer cycling, or the neighbor has his lawn mower running. Mics are sensitive!
Yes Rich, I 'sort of' hear something in the background but with my dodgy lugs can't ID it...adds a sort of low level 'fuzz' to the guitar.
ALWAYS when posting clips (320k MP3 please) give us a level and then a good ten secs of silence.
If the room is carpeted one trick to brighten ac'git is to lay down some Hardboard (don't know what you yanks call it) about 20 sq ft and sit in the middle of it.
Might be called "Masonite"?
Dave.
ALWAYS when posting clips (320k MP3 please) give us a level and then a good ten secs of silence.
If the room is carpeted one trick to brighten ac'git is to lay down some Hardboard (don't know what you yanks call it) about 20 sq ft and sit in the middle of it.
Might be called "Masonite"?
Dave.
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oh yea dudes the window was open all kind of noise coming through lol. also i didnt edit out me slappen the keyboard. i just wanted to test real quick. I will post when i actually record in better setup. there is a main road right outside so there is like an air that it pushes from the traffic. when i close the window i have these huge custom sized mats that hang over the entire window opening they are thick. that's what give me much better control over the noise. but i only put it up when i am ready to try an track finals after i test everything out. I will do one more test with the 10 guage strings and then i will decide what to do for the final tracking
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markmann
Active member
At one time I used to record with Shure dynamic mic's because it was all I had but now I use either a large or small diameter condensers because they pickup more of the subtle frequencies that I like. I would rather have more to work with and filter out what I don't want with high/low pass and EQ. One huge factor in the sound being heard by the mic is the mic position and very small adjustments can make a huge difference. IME thin strings on an acoustic guitar do not sound good.