Recording a Piano recital

Rocket Boy

New member
I'll be recording a piano recital on Wednesday, and thought I would put this up for if anyone had anything they thought I absolutely NEEDED to get this done and sounding good. If it was, it would have to be something I could get at Guitar Center, since I would have to stop by to pick it up.

Mics I have are... Oktava MK012(x2), Peluso 2247, and a bunch of 57's and things like that. Pre's are Mackie VLZ's, Audio Buddy, and a VTB1. If theres anything I could pick up for not much money that would be a great help I would appreciate you letting me know. Thanks!
 
If you're recording a grand piano, I've had success with a mic (dynamic) strapped on the lid strut at 90 degrees to the strut, pointed towards the hammers.

A second mic (condenser) in the "curve" of the piano pointed towards the middle of the lid.

If you have a third mic (dynamic/condenser), put on a stand upstage over the pianist's head, pointed towards the piano strings.

If you have a fourth mic (dynamic), sit it on the apron/foots of the stage pointed towards the piano.

Another mic in the auditorium to pick up crowd noise/ambience.

Mix these sources to suit.
 
Additionally,

when you EQ the final mix, use an equalizer to remove the "boxiness" of the live recorded sound. Even a hi fi graphic equalizer will do. Pianos have sweet spots at 2kHz and 12kHz, which you can lift a few dBs for some added sparkle.
 
lumbago said:
If you're recording a grand piano, I've had success with a mic (dynamic) strapped on the lid strut at 90 degrees to the strut, pointed towards the hammers.

A second mic (condenser) in the "curve" of the piano pointed towards the middle of the lid.

If you have a third mic (dynamic/condenser), put on a stand upstage over the pianist's head, pointed towards the piano strings.

If you have a fourth mic (dynamic), sit it on the apron/foots of the stage pointed towards the piano.

Another mic in the auditorium to pick up crowd noise/ambience.

Mix these sources to suit.

It seems this is a classical recital. Your setup suggestion works for jazz or rock, but would be deadly for Bach, Beethoven, or Chopin.

If it is indeed classical, in your situation I'd use Oktava (preferably with omni capsules, if you have them) (no dynamics here!) and start about 6-7' in front of open lid somewhere in front of the stick and then monitor for height/distance/position/angle for the best sound.

Another option, use Oktava cardioid and your Peluso in fig8 for MS setup.

For pre use your Makie, unless you have and impatient to spend your dough for a "real" stuff.
In any case, remember that the mic positioning will be more important than anything.
 
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Listen to Marik. Classical recordings are by convention done with as few (accurate and painstakingly placed) mics as possible and without audio processing of any kind.
 
Definately gives me a lot to think about. I dont have omni caps for the Oktava's, although the Peluso can do omni. Any more suggestions are appreciated.
 
throw every mic you have at it, in various positions.

pick the ones that come out best..

very little expierence with piano rec'ing. i found it is hard.
 
use the Oktava's in an ORTF a couple feet out aimed at the lid...I've had great success with that pattern and a couple of matched condensers.
 
if this is classical..DO NOT CLOSE MIKE..I record Classical concerts for a living(all live) , and do at least 2-3 piano concerts a month.

Go with a pair of your choosing, in the config of your choosing, in the "curve" of the piano, at least 6-7 feet back. ORTF is a safe bet..however..if the room is good, Blumlein is unrivaled. Jecklin Disc is another great technique that helps control rowty LF signal, provides "focus" , and images very, very well.


Omnis are preferred for the natural sound and LF extension, however, if the room sucks..a more directional pattern would be best. Also..if the room is good, be sure to post another pair of micros somewhere away from the main array, and pointed up at the ceiling to capture ambience. dont be afraid to crank the gain on the ambience pair, but during mixing time, mix it in about 10-15 db down from the rest..this will give the real "being there" feeling. for mics..id use the pelusos as the mains(SDCs have a really nice transient response and detail that LDCs generally lack..this comes at the expense of higher noise, (generally) but is nothing to fret over.) ...I would use the Oktavas as "ambience" mics.. I would use the VLZ pres. leave the dynamics at home..Dynamics and Classical music..no.
 
BigRay said:
Go with a pair of your choosing, in the config of your choosing, in the "curve" of the piano, at least 6-7 feet back.


Hi BigRay.

Seeing as you do all live -- I'm assuming this
means with an audience -- is the "visual" of
mic's and mic stands ever an issue?
What I mean is ... is anyone at the venue
ever concerned that the mic's/stands are
an "eyesore" and request more discreet
coverage? If so, how do you deal with this?

And as for the mic's 6-7 feet out on the
piano ... how far off the floor would you
put these?
 
I specialize almost exclusively on classical piano recording and besides numerous live recordings, as a sound engineer so far have 6 commercial piano CDs, 4 in work, and 7 scheduled for the next year.

I had a pleasure working with some really big stars and beeing a concert pianist myself (as well), have a doctoral (abd) degree in piano performance (as well as MM from Moscow Conservatory)

Here is what I learnt so far:

1) There is no hall and no piano (at least I never met), which would require more than 2 mics to do the job right.
2) I can tell you for sure--if a classical pianist will hear a close miked recording, it might be your last day in business.
3) You should be carefull with omnies in live situation. Although they are the mics of choice for piano, with more projecting instruments you are forced to get to a more distant miking and have a danger of picking more noise from audience and AC. A pair of cardioid SDCs (although a compromize) would be a better idea here.
4) Don't do the miking just for sake of "what sounds good". The repertoire and individuality of the performer are as important (or even more). What is good for Bach or some contemporary composers won't suit Mozart. What is good for Mozart won't necessarily suit Rachmaninov or Scriabin. What is good for one performer can sound awfull with another. If all of those are performed in the same concert you should find a "middle way".
Only your artistic taste can tell you solution.
5) Some practical aspects:

If you want to make a good artistic piano recording (not the one most radios do, i.e. put the mics on familiar spot and press record botton), most important--get familiar with repertoire performed. Find CDs and listen to the music.
Come to the hall for a dress rehearsal. Listen from the hall, paying special attention to individual touch of the performer, use of pedal and dynamics, emotional involvement and connection with the music.
Go on stage, listen to the sound of instrument in different spots, paying attention to the sound in the hall (from the stage), then go back to the hall and listen from there.
Your artistic intuition should tell you what would be a sweet spot between piano/performer/hall/type of music/mic position relationship.

Here is one of the tracks I made a couple years ago for a commercial CD. Couple of SDCs omnies with Jecklin disk. Straight, unmastered track from the session, just edited for removing noises from reaching to the strings. Sorry for presenting MP3--my webspace is limited:



As a side note, usually I spend anywhere between 1 1/2 to 9 hours, just for the miking.
 
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Marik said:
1) There is no hall and no piano (at least I never met), which would require more than 2 mics to do the job right

Marik, generally, in a situation where I don't have the
opportunity to attend the rehearsal,
where would you suggest to put two cardoids to record
classical piano?

If there is a question about the sound
of the hall when it comes to heating
and air conditioning noise, is it much better
to go with cardioid instead of omni?
 
Hey there...yes, at times when visuals are an issue, I simply fly the microphones from the rafters with fishing wire.

as far as height..there isnt really a formula. Looking at past notes, I normally go at least 5 feet, and no more than 7 or so. The hall will dictate that. Also, when you are trying to find the sweet spot, put a hand over one ear and listen that way..what this does is prevent the ears from doing binaural processing(which can skew results)





Brackish said:
Hi BigRay.

Seeing as you do all live -- I'm assuming this
means with an audience -- is the "visual" of
mic's and mic stands ever an issue?
What I mean is ... is anyone at the venue
ever concerned that the mic's/stands are
an "eyesore" and request more discreet
coverage? If so, how do you deal with this?

And as for the mic's 6-7 feet out on the
piano ... how far off the floor would you
put these?
 
Just wanted to let you guys know that the recording came out sounding good, thanks partially to your guy's great info. I ended up miking it using my two Oktava's in a spaced pair, the Peluso sort of in between in Omni, and a C2000b under the piano phase reversed.
 
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