Recording a 5-string banjo?

P

Parlor Music

New member
I do lots of Bluegrass recordings, but finding a good mic & placement combo for banjo is a nightmare for me. So far, I get the best sound from either my AT4060 or Peluso 22 47 (U47 clone) run through a SCA N72 (Neve 1272 clone) preamp. Usually, placement ends up being about shoulder height and 2' out, or 1' to the side and out from the back of the picking hand.

My room is pretty dead sounding and probably not optimal. It'll be redesigned in a few months, but in the meantime I'd like some pointers from those who get good results.
 
You are pretty much there already, but I would probably start about 2 feet in front of the players picking hand and move around to taste. The 4060 is a great first choice, unless you had a ribbon around that would be nice to tone down the instrument a little bit.
 
The secret is in the eq. listen to some recordings and you'll hear how flat(t) they are, almost no high end at all
 
Big Kenny said:
The secret is in the eq. listen to some recordings and you'll hear how flat(t) they are, almost no high end at all
Click to expand...

Doesn't this suggestion go against what they all say? Such as "get it to sound the way you want with mic choice & placement first". I'm always hesitant to make any drastic EQ moves. To me a 6dB adjustment is way too much. Okay, tell me the secret!
 
Parlor, what kind of sound are you getting? Possibly not enough detail and definition? Do you have any other preamps?

Do you have any sound clips?
 
Dot said:
Parlor, what kind of sound are you getting? Possibly not enough detail and definition? Do you have any other preamps?

Do you have any sound clips?
Click to expand...

Before I even EQ it sounds really harsh...brittle...just not pleasing. I know that my room probably has a lot to do with it. I have a Presonus DigiMax preamp unit in addition to the Neves and the ones on my Soundcraft console. I imagine a Coles ribbon mic would the the ticket, but I want to be sure that I'm getting a good handle of mic placement on banjo to begin with. Actually, I'm amazed at how many crappy banjo tracks I hear on recordings, but there are some that just blow me away. Those are the ones I'm shooting for. Ron Block and Sammy Shelor usually have good tones on their recordings, although al lot of it has to do with the musician.

Here's a sound clip of a demo recording after I applied generous amount of EQ to the banjo track. This is the sound I'd like to get close to BEFORE I reach for the EQ.
 
I'm with Ronan. I record banjo often, and find that about 15" to 2' out from the head is fine--maybe closer to the neck (but it's amazing how the tone changes with just a two-inch move, so finding that sweet spot is imperative). I've liked results I've gotten with the C1, T3 and my ribbon mike, depending on where I want it in the mix. In the past when I mentioned the C1 on banjo, there was some backlash, but, hey, whatever works or doesn't work for you.
 
I'm speaking of taking highs out, not adding lows. That banjo track site in the mix so well, really sweet, banjos don't sound like that in the real world. Mic placement and room treatment are pretty important here. I'm probably telling you things you know. Star with the mic 18" away from the bridge and move toward the butt. You can do a little compression on the way in too. Put a large blanket on a boom stand behind the mic too keep it from coming back off the wall
 
I like that idea of placing a blanket behind the mic. Good idea. I want to try the Peluso U47 clone in omni out a couple of feet to see what happens. I imagine that the blanket should be at least as far away from the mic as the mic is from the banjo to avoid any reflected sounds out of phase. I just picked up a Behringer ECM8000 that I might try placing over the shoulder in addition to the Peluso.

As far as that banjo in the recording you heard, it was a Huber model which has a tone more in the direction of what I like to get. This weekend I'll record banjo and try out some of your suggestions.
 
I'm going to be facing the same dilemma soon. Will probably be renting a Royer 121. That aside, have ya all tried recording without the resonator? Seems to me that there's so much in the way of volume and overtones that's no wonder it's a pisser to record. Taking the resonator off would quiet it down a bit and seem to reduce the overtones (?). Any comments?

Raaen
 
Wish I could help but I've got four banjos and they all record differently and each banjo requires different mic placement depending on the song and style. Mics vary too. I tend to start out with a C-1 about 2' away with a blanket on tripods behind the mic. The C-1's seem to like the long-necks and the Deering 5-string but hate my main archtop.
 
Parlor Music.
Love the song and sound.
So what mics were you using on what instruments and vocals, how do you rate the SCA preamp.
Thanks
Vikki(uk)
 
Raaen said:
I'm going to be facing the same dilemma soon. Will probably be renting a Royer 121. That aside, have ya all tried recording without the resonator? Seems to me that there's so much in the way of volume and overtones that's no wonder it's a pisser to record. Taking the resonator off would quiet it down a bit and seem to reduce the overtones (?). Any comments?

Raaen
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Don't do that. A major part of the banjo's sound is from the resonator.

I tried a Royer R121 on banjo, but I couldn't get anything useful from it. The ribbon mic I have tried in another studio that really sounded good was a Coles.
 
Vikki said:
Parlor Music.
Love the song and sound.
So what mics were you using on what instruments and vocals, how do you rate the SCA preamp.
Thanks
Vikki(uk)
Click to expand...

For that recording, I used the following:
Lead vox - AT4060
Banjo - AT4060
Rythm guitars - KM54 & Sm81
Mandolin - KM54
Upright bass - AKG414 w/K&K pickup

I love the SCA N72 pres. On that demo, I tracked everything through the N72. Although, they're not for everything since they do color the sound. They're good for fattening up vocals, bass, banjo and fiddle. I wished I had used the DigiMax pres for guitars and vocals. They came out a little dark since they all have mellow voices. I have the API clone module on the way. I can't wait to try that out on vocals and guitar.
 
I think I'm on to something. I recorded some guide tracks that included a banjo. I actually recorded at a different location 2 states away from home. The room sounds much better than mine, so that probably helped a ton. To my suprise, the Peluso mic wasn't among my choices after trying out a bunch of combinations and placements. Here's what the final choice was:

Audio Technica 4060 out 14" from the 7th fret at shoulder height. Also, a Behringer ECM8000 was placed at ear height over the right shoulder. Both were run into SCA N72 preamps. This REALLY sounded nice. I have almost no EQing to do with this combo. Even the banjo player who is really "picky" (ha ha) about the sound was totally satisfied. I've never been a fan of Behringer stuff because they seem so cheap, but this ECM8000 is really amazing...and they're only $50!
 
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