Recommend A Computer To A Schmuck

[Harold Boring]

Hello. I'm in the market for a PC for recording bands. I've purchased two audio interfaces to record 16 channels at once, most likely at 24/48. I won't be mixing many more channels than that, and I won't be using a huge amount of effects. Obviously, a certain amount of compression, EQ, and reverb plugins, but nothing insane. Anyway, I have a budget limit of about $700. I've been reading all the threads here, as well as looking up specs of various computers, etc, but I am lost in info.

Can anyone recommend a stable PC in that price range that will allow me to record and mix 16 to 18 simultaneous channels, using effects on at least half of them? I'm not going to be using any virtual instruments. Just mics to real instruments, processed by plugins for mix-down. Obviously I am looking to avoid the typical problems of pops, clicks, drop-outs, monitoring latency.

I'm getting lost in data and reviews. Anyone do any similar kind of recording? Typically a 3 to 5 piece rock or jazz band. Typical mixing effects, etc.
I realize a faster processor is better, more RAM, more cores, etc. But, I am finding it difficult nailing down a brand, or even if I have a realistic price range. I am no computer wiz. If this price range is unrealistic for what I want, what do you recommend? What would you use for this set up? Please help.

 

[Justsomeguy]

A couple of quick questions;

what DAW do you plan on using/do you have a preference?

Do you want new or used or either?

Do you want windows or are mac and linux plausible?

in terms of specs, anything with a core 2 duo and at least 2gb of ram should be more than enough, especially if you're not using virtual instruments.

 

[jonny deep]

On reading, I was thinking you might be a good candidate for a Mac Mini. Not horribly expensive and very plug and playable. I'm not a Mac fan myself, but it might suit you nicely.

 

[Justsomeguy]

On reading, I was thinking you might be a good candidate for a Mac Mini. Not horribly expensive and very plug and playable. I'm not a Mac fan myself, but it might suit you nicely.

i would say if you go down the mac mini route i'd suggest one of the slightly older models as the new one's no longer have built in CD/DVD drives. however, if you already have a monitor, keyboard, mouse etc the new mac mini's do fly! i was very tempted last time i needed a new machine (the end of last year) but ended up with a 13inch macbook pro as, with education discount, it worked out about the same price (as i don't have any extra peripherals so would have to buy them as well) plus the macbook pro is much more portable which was a biggy for me.

Saying that, you can find the older model macbook whites or pro's on ebay within your price range and they are excellent machines, as are the iMacs.

i'm not some huge mac fan boy but all the stuff at work is mac based so for me it's much easier as a compatibility option. plus, i've never had any of the problems in terms of recording with mac's that i've had with windows PC's.

out of curiosity, what interfaces did you buy?

 

[Harold Boring]

A couple of quick questions;

what DAW do you plan on using/do you have a preference?

Do you want new or used or either?

Do you want windows or are mac and linux plausible?

in terms of specs, anything with a core 2 duo and at least 2gb of ram should be more than enough, especially if you're not using virtual instruments.

Hi. I am planning on using REAPER, but I'm open to others.
I'm preferring to buy a new computer as I am a little scared of getting a clunker.
I've never owned a Mac, but I'm not partial. I am fine with learning a new OS.
Hope that helps with suggestions. I appreciate the info so far!

 

[Harold Boring]

i would say if you go down the mac mini route i'd suggest one of the slightly older models as the new one's no longer have built in CD/DVD drives. however, if you already have a monitor, keyboard, mouse etc the new mac mini's do fly! i was very tempted last time i needed a new machine (the end of last year) but ended up with a 13inch macbook pro as, with education discount, it worked out about the same price (as i don't have any extra peripherals so would have to buy them as well) plus the macbook pro is much more portable which was a biggy for me.

Saying that, you can find the older model macbook whites or pro's on ebay within your price range and they are excellent machines, as are the iMacs.

i'm not some huge mac fan boy but all the stuff at work is mac based so for me it's much easier as a compatibility option. plus, i've never had any of the problems in terms of recording with mac's that i've had with windows PC's.

out of curiosity, what interfaces did you buy?

I will research this "Mac Mini". I'll look it up. I have a keyboard, mouse and monitor already, so I am really just looking for the CPU/desktop, however since most of the deals I've been looking at seem to just offer the whole package, I'm not picky.

My first instinct is a PC, since that is what I"m familiar with, but If Mac's are more stable, I could be convinced to make the switch.

The two Interfaces I have purchased are a Focusrite Octopre MK II Dynamic, and a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Thanks for the info so far. Perhaps I should just purchase a simple dual core or quad core and be done with it? I've hear bad things about Lenovo, which is in my target price range, so I'm a little wary. Maybe someone out there has a preferred brand, or similar set up? Cheers!

 

[Harold Boring]

So, here is the first one I found on Ebay. How appropriate might these specs be for what I want to do:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Product Information[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is a customized product of Apple Desktop Mac Mini (June, 2010)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Product Identifiers[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Brand[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Apple[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Product Family [/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mac Mini[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Model ID[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Macmini4,1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Model Number[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A1347[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MPN[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]eBay_AppleMacminiJune2010[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Processor[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Processor Type[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intel[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Motherboard[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Video Output Interface[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]USB[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Motherboard I/O Ports[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]FireWire (IEEE1394b) x 1, RJ45 Lan Port x 1, USB 2.0 x 4[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bus Speed[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1066 MHz[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Technical Features[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Expansion Slots[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SDXC card[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hard Drive[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hard Drive Interface[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Serial ATA II[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Memory[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RAM Technology[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DDR3 SDRAM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RAM Max Supported Size[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8 GB[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RAM Memory Slots Qunatity[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2 x SODIMM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Max. Cache Memory[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 MB[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Video[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Max. Video Resolution[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2560 x 1600[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Video Outputs[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DVI x 1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audio[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audio Input[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Line In (3.5mm), Microphone, Stereo Input Jack[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audio Output[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Analog Audio, Headphone, Line Out[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Networking[/FONT]

Would a maximum cache memory of 3 MB be enough to keep things moving smoothly? I have no idea. I am jumping into DAWs from a Korg D1600.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Hi. I am planning on using REAPER, but I'm open to others.
I'm preferring to buy a new computer as I am a little scared of getting a clunker.
I've never owned a Mac, but I'm not partial. I am fine with learning a new OS.
Hope that helps with suggestions. I appreciate the info so far!

Reaper is solid, dirt cheap, and will do pretty much everything every other DAW will do for about 1/10th of the price

I know what you mean; i've only ever owned one second hand computer and it was more trouble than it was worth.

If you've never used a mac before they can be quite confusing to start with but after a month or so you find yourself cursing window PC's when things don't work like they should.

As someone said to me the other days "macs are basically just a standardised PC" and, for me, this has been a great help in terms of audio drivers and compatibility. my analogy of mac vs windows PC's is this;

a mac is like a lamborghini; they're built in one factory by a team of experts, every one has the same parts that are carefully designed to work together, they're very expensive, they look very sexy, they go from A to B very quickly and in style, they cost a small fortune to fix if they break, you can only get parts at the lamborghini garage, not loads of people have them so you have to find new lamborghini friends to help you out

a windows pc is like a ford fiesta; it's dirt cheap, you can upgrade everything in it with pretty much anything from any other ford, it'll get you from A to B although it will only go at 40 mph everywhere, parts are cheap for it and readily available, they're more common so more people can help you with it, but even if you completely rebuild it it still won't be a lamborghini

the real problems i had when i was using windows pc's to record was the hardware compatibility and driver issues. now please bare in mind this was about 8 years ago and i know PC's have come a long way since then. i went though a couple of interfaces before finding one that worked (started with an Maudio 24/96 pci thing that my computer took a while to recognise and then never worked properly, a motu 8 pre which i borrowed from a friend and had to buy a firewire pci card for and then the firewire card caused alot of problems, and ended up with an Maudio Audiophile usb which was ok but meant i had to get some external preamps). the same friend who said the "standardised pc" thing above owns a windows PC he's built (he's an IT technician) and runs reaper fine even with bigger projects. he had some initial problems with hardware when he updated to windows 7 but he got it fixed pretty quickly with some updated hardware.

 

[jimmys69]

"a windows pc is like a ford fiesta; it's dirt cheap, you can upgrade everything in it with pretty much anything from any other ford, it'll get you from A to B although it will only go at 40 mph everywhere, parts are cheap for it and readily available, they're more common so more people can help you with it, but even if you completely rebuild it it still won't be a lamborghini"

My home built Ford Fiesta will blow the doors off your Lamborghini. Not starting an argument, just saying. Oh, and it only cost me $1200.

 

[jimmys69]

That's weird, site won't let me put a smiley face after my comment above. I meant to be smiling.

Weird, smiles are not working. I'll report that. "smile"

 

[Justsomeguy]

So, here is the first one I found on Ebay. How appropriate might these specs be for what I want to do:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Product Information[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is a customized product of Apple Desktop Mac Mini (June, 2010)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Product Identifiers[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Brand[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Apple[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Product Family [/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mac Mini[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Model ID[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Macmini4,1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Model Number[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A1347[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MPN[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]eBay_AppleMacminiJune2010[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Processor[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Processor Type[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intel[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Motherboard[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Video Output Interface[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]USB[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Motherboard I/O Ports[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]FireWire (IEEE1394b) x 1, RJ45 Lan Port x 1, USB 2.0 x 4[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bus Speed[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1066 MHz[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Technical Features[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Expansion Slots[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SDXC card[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hard Drive[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hard Drive Interface[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Serial ATA II[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Memory[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RAM Technology[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DDR3 SDRAM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RAM Max Supported Size[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8 GB[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RAM Memory Slots Qunatity[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2 x SODIMM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Max. Cache Memory[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 MB[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Video[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Max. Video Resolution[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2560 x 1600[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Video Outputs[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DVI x 1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audio[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audio Input[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Line In (3.5mm), Microphone, Stereo Input Jack[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audio Output[/FONT]	[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Analog Audio, Headphone, Line Out[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Networking[/FONT]

Would a maximum cache memory of 3 MB be enough to keep things moving smoothly? I have no idea. I am jumping into DAWs from a Korg D1600.

not sure if i've just gone mental or blind but what processor/speed is it and how much ram does it have in it at the moment?

the core 2 duo 2ghz upwards with 2gb of RAM upwards would be more than suitable. also, i thought the video output was mini dv on the older ones and HDMI on the newer ones rather than usb.

tbh, most of the machines on the market now are more than capable of running multitrack audio but seeing as the Focusrite is firewire you'd be safer imo going down the mac route purely because firewire pci cards for windows pc's seems to be the bane of many a musician. there are some that work fine but it seems to be a case of matching your machine to the right card. if you can find a windows pc new with a firewire socket then that should work fine.

 

[Justsomeguy]

"a windows pc is like a ford fiesta; it's dirt cheap, you can upgrade everything in it with pretty much anything from any other ford, it'll get you from A to B although it will only go at 40 mph everywhere, parts are cheap for it and readily available, they're more common so more people can help you with it, but even if you completely rebuild it it still won't be a lamborghini"

My home built Ford Fiesta will blow the doors off your Lamborghini. Not starting an argument, just saying. Oh, and it only cost me $1200.

lol, tbh it's probably sexier and comes in a range of cooler colours as well, plus you have some choice over how badass it is. it's like japanese sports cars vs big manly muscle cars

yeah, as i said, my friend with a custom built windows machine is faster than my actual car and i think he paid about £500 (about $750 ish) but then i had a friend with a £1000 store build pc "geared for audio" (the shops words, not mine) that drove him to the point of insanity with problems.

 

[jimmys69]

As long as the firewire card is TI (Texas Instruments) chipset, you will be fine. It is the crappy ass aftermarket ones that have plagued users.

There is totally a bunch of crap available out there for PC. The key is to get good advice as to what works. I do agree that a Mac-out of the box, will likely outperform a similar PC. But that does not mean it will always outperform a well tuned PC.

 

[jimmys69]

Oh yeah, you either need to know a PC mechanic, or learn to wrench yourself. I had about a year of fighting to get a 'from the dealership' Ford (Dell) to work smoothly for recording. In the end, it was just not possible with the piece of crap. So I purchased a kit car (with Ford parts), and ended up with a hotrod that runs 10's. 'Smile'

Hey! The smile works now. Friggen site.......

 

[Justsomeguy]

There is totally a bunch of crap available out there for PC. The key is to get good advice as to what works. I do agree that a Mac-out of the box, will likely outperform a similar PC. But that does not mean it will always outperform a well tuned PC.

agreed. i'm sure there must be some threads on here about the best options for windows based recording/setups.

plus the ability to properly overhaul pretty much everything on a pc does leave a lot of room for expansion. maybe not completely future proof but pretty close. my one peeve with my macbook pro is that rather than having a nice battery slot which hides the ram and hd making life easy to add more ram or a bigger hd (like on my old macbook white), there's the whole bottom panel to unscrew and mess around with and i'm pretty sure apple have designed it to make me buy a new one when i want an upgrade, just like the iPods

 

[Justsomeguy]

even though i made the car analogy, i managed to utterly confuse myself reading your last post jimmy. what have i started

we're currently in the process of fighting out IT department at work as we need to update some of our machines (they're 2006 iMacs) and they reckon some some £200 HP boxes will do just fine. as we keep explaining, we don't have any problems using PC's but 1) they need to actually spend the time and money "tuning" them to work with audio and 2) seeing as they can only just about get the PC's in our office to work with emails and the internet we'd rather have something that'd work straight out of the box so they don't need to do anything more than plug them in and leave us to it

 

[Harold Boring]

With that Mac Mini advertised on Ebay, I cannot tell if the processor speed is 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm. I do notice that on the Mac mini website, you can configure a 2.3 GHz to have a larger hard drive(750 GB from 500 GB) to run at 7200 RPM. I assume that's going to raise the price, how much I'm not clear. Here are the specs:

[h=1]Technical Specifications
[/h] [h=1]2.3GHz Mac mini[/h]
[h=3]Processor[/h] 2.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 with 3MB on-chip shared L3 cache


[h=3]Memory[/h]

• 2GB of 1333MHz DDR3 memory

Configurable to 4GB or 8GB.


500GB (5400-rpm) hard drive
Both models configurable to 750GB (7200-rpm) hard drive; 2.5GHz model also configurable to 256GB solid-state drive or 256GB solid-state drive and 750GB (7200-rpm) hard drive.

Intel HD Graphics 3000 processor with 288MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory[SUP]3

[/SUP]

Thunderbolt port with support for up to 2560-by-1600 resolution HDMI port with support for up to 1920-by-1200 resolution DVI output using HDMI to DVI Adapter (included) Support for dual display and video mirroring
[h=2]Audio[/h]	Audio line in minijack (digital/analog) Audio line out/headphone minijack (digital/analog) HDMI port supports multichannel audio output Support for Apple iPhone headset with microphone Built-in speaker

• Thunderbolt port (up to 10 Gbps)
• FireWire 800 port (up to 800 Mbps)
• Four USB 2.0 ports (up to 480 Mbps)
• HDMI port
• SDXC card slot
• Gigabit Ethernet port
• Audio in/out

I'm leaning toward this beast. It seems pretty sound, as long as I upgrade to the larger hard drive/faster rpm.
What do you guys think? I could be wrong, but it seems like the expandable options would probably be enough for what I want to do, mixing-wise. As a first-timer, I really have no clue.

 

[Justsomeguy]

that's the specs for the newest one yeah? if so and if it's within your budget they kick ass with recording (i've had a couple of students get them this year and they love them and i was certainly tempted when i was looking).

the only things to consider would be; it's not got a cd/dvd built in so you'd need an external one (about £30 new or the fancy apple one is £66), you'd need a firewire 400 to firewire 800 adaptor or cable to plug the focusrite in (i got one for £19 from the apple store but i'm sure there's cheaper ones), and the monitor output is on HDMI although the new ones come packed with an HDMI to DVI so you may need a DVI to VGA adaptor unless your monitor has DVI inputs (it's £21 from the apple store but i think there's cheaper ones).

it'd probably be worth adding the 4gb RAM upgrade but the upgraded hd may be overkill (and does make the price jump up a lot!)

 

[Harold Boring]

Would it be wiser to just stretch the budget for lower priced new iMac? It's double my budget, but it seems to be a safer bet for the longer haul. Or is that overkill?

 

[Justsomeguy]

the iMac isn't necessarily overkill but i can't see the mac mini struggling to do what you want it to and if you already have a screen, keyboard, mouse then it's only little bits extra you may need. plus the mac mini can still upgrade to 8gb RAM if 2 or 4 isn't enough (which should be plenty)