reading music and timing

D

dwarf

New member
OK I'm getting back into reading traditional music (you know the black dots :D ) and well I'm having troubble counting. I have a natural ear and once I've heard the song I can pick it. But thats the problem I want to be able to sight read without hearing it.

any websites or programs I can use to help me with my timing.

Ps. To help i've taken myself right back to basics, by going through Mel-bays "mastering the guitar" It seems to be helping but, somthing interactive would also help. Also mel's compositions are not exactly mind blowing.

Thanks.

The trying to get back into classical dwarf
 
1234, 2234, 3234, 4234 :|

:-) Good luck! I started piano lessons when I was 8 or so, and I'm SOOOO glad I learned how to read standard notation.
 
Basic Rhythmic Training by Robert Starer. All his books of rhythm exercises are good.

I think the most important thing in reading music is to learn to hear the patterns of sound in your mind when you look at the notation. The mechanical counting of beats and figuring out the math of how different note values fit into it is important of course but with reading rhythm you want to try to learn to recognize figures - note groupings - like they're words and phrases in spoken language. That makes reading rhythm easy.

Best way to study rhythm by far is to put the guitar down, keep the beat with your hand - conducting or tapping - and vocalize the rhythms. That gets it in the head. Then pick up the guitar and you'll know how it should sound.

Tim
 
Check out a Suzuki method for violin, they come with a CD, it's single voice stuff so it's pretty easy to play on guitar, and there's some Bach in there :cool:
 
Bump to Lawler. One of the techniques taught at that school in Mass. is to recognize note groupings. IMHO that is a truly helpful method. You state that you are good at playing what you hear; take some notation of a piece that you know and play along while reading the notation. Break it up into rhythmic "chunks" and make the mental connection between what you are hearing and the visual representation. That way you will learn to "hear" what you see. :)
 
A very wise and gifted Bass player once told me that " your ability to sight read will be measured by the height of the stack of music you have read through."

Over the years I have come to appreciate his words.

just keep at it.

chazba
 
You might even go so far as to getting a practice pad and some sticks, and do some basic snare drum exercises. This approach has helped immensely for a singer friend of mine.
 
Yeah, we do the clappig thing at school, the teacher plays a rythm and we have to write it down only thing is I suck. "amsterdam" is possibaly the only thing I know and "tri-pa-let" yeah, i have some work to do.

Oh I make up for it with aural, me kicks major ass at intervals.
 
NOT to discourage...

but also...bad timing can be fixed with practice...

but over the years trying tons and tons of people out for various projects...there are a few people where the concept of timing simply doesn't exist...

i could get this one singer in a car singing to a recording with the rest of the band, clapping along...but when it was his turn to sing to the band he would...

1. pick a random spot in the song he felt to be correct and start his singing
2. sing at a random speed that he felt was correct for the song
3. make our ears cry
 
Ted Reed's guide to syncopation. Buy it, live it, love it. It is for drumming, but nevermind that, it is exactly what you want. Buy it and steal some drumsticks from your drummer when they are looking the other way, and go through the excercises on a pad, or a book or whatever. Or it would be easy enough to figure out a way to play the excercises on strings of a guitar, but keep in mind it isn't about melody it is all about rythym.

They are super simple, but force you to methodically count and play rythyms that are not 4-beat intuitive. you will very quickly get used to how the written notes and rests sound rythmically and it will be ingrained in your brain and you will just be able to see and do.

For drummers, you play simple beats with hi-hats (or ride) and bass (or snare) and play the rythym with the free drum. So you would play straight 8ths on the ride, 2 and 4 on the snare, and then play the rythms with the kick. you start reeally slow with a metronome and force yourself to play until you can read the notes and automatically play it with the kick. Or, switch it up (and move from right foot to left hand) and play straight 4s on the kick andplay the rythym with the snare. It is a very easy way to baby-step your way to independace in your hands/legs (I know, still talking drums not guitar, but this could be useful to anyone) and makes your brain think and feel the two different things going on (the beat and offbeat) while tying that in with the printed notes.

Daav
 
orksnork said:
...over the years trying tons and tons of people out for various projects...there are a few people where the concept of timing simply doesn't exist...
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IME that's not because they can't. It's because they're being careless or unfocused - but very rudimentary rhythm self-coaching can overcome it. Feeling a consistent beat and a cyclical metric pulse are natural things. Many people become kind of neurotic about making music though, including their sense of rhythm, due to negative experiences with music classes or lessons when they're kids.

Tim
 
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well after about 2 hours of that...fuck him...

and kudos for dwarf for realizing his problem and working with it
 
Back in College, I took "World Music Traditions" as an elective. This class was known as "Clapping for Credit" because the final involved learning a traditional Japanese drum piece and clapping it (and saying the names of the beats/sounds/whatever) on your desk from memory.
Eight years later, I can still do most of it!
Here it goes -
Ten Ten
Ten Ten Teka Ten
Sku Ten Ten
Toro Ro
(ok, I only remember the beginning at this point :) )
What a $150,000 Private School education will get you!
 
Ok some of you seem to know where I'm coming from and some of you seem to think I'm a retard. (Thanks dor all your replys though it all helps)

I play with a metronome, it's just getting the rythms that are on the page to the "axe". It all falls down to realising and memorising sounds and patterns as stated before.

I was just wondering if there was any programs (like fretboard wizzard) around to help me.

Thanks

Dwarf
 
dwarf said:
Ok some of you seem to know where I'm coming from and some of you seem to think I'm a retard. (Thanks dor all your replys though it all helps)

I play with a metronome, it's just getting the rythms that are on the page to the "axe". It all falls down to realising and memorising sounds and patterns as stated before.

I was just wondering if there was any programs (like fretboard wizzard) around to help me.

Thanks

Dwarf
Click to expand...

Dwarf,

Find some sheet music where you have CD's of the same music. Play along with the recordings while you're reading. Get a lot of different material and do this every day.

Most people who read really well grew up playing in organized groups (like concert bands, orchestras, jazz big bands, etc.), or they have many years of private lessons. Chazba nailed it. You just have to put in some time.

It's so worth it. Reading well will increase the amount of opportunities you'll have to play music, and better your chances of finding good paying work doing it, if that's what you want.
 
yeah I play in the schools jazz band the thing is I hear what everyone else is playing and ear it.
 
I think that unlike some other things that migth have a shortcut that software or a gizmo or whatever can fix, this is one of those things you need to physically go throguh a bunch until it starts to feel natural, which was why i suggested the Ted Reed book. TYhis thread made me pull it out last night and i remembered how cool it is, i opened to one page at random and it had the same rythm 4 different times, with 4 different notations, once you get the basic rythym, your eye tracks the notes and you *see* how the differnt notes *feel* while you track the rtythym.

Anyway, good luck

Daav
 
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