rANE ms1b, sp vtb1, oR dmp3

J

jeff0633

Member
I am going to buy a single or dual channel pre for $150 or less, maybe as high as 200 if need be. I have narrowed it down to three pres from all my research. The problem is, I have heard so much great stuff about the Rane an SP models. Neither can really be as good as some people say, can they? I will be recording all the usual stuff--Tube amp with an SM57, Acoustic with Marshall 603's, vocals with AT 3035, and DI bass. I think the DMP3 is falling below the other two, cause I have not heard as much ranting and raving about it as I have the other two. The problem with the Rane is that it does not have 1/4 inch unbalanced out. I need this. I need to go from the XLR output to a RCa unbalanced input. How much will that cost, and will it hurt the quality of the preamp by using a transformer?
No wonder I am confused. Listen to some of these comments I have found.


Here's a few commenst about the Rane.



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As far as a pre, I would say the Rane MS 1b is pound for pound better than any pre you'll find for under $500 - including the RNP. I would easily recommend a pair of MS 1b's over an RNP for most people. But I will still recommend the RNP in some cases, and I will also still recommend the DMP3 and the VTB-1. Just depends on what people want and what applications they have.

I guess my recommendation list would look something like:

Pres under $500

Best single channel clean: Rane MS 1b
Best 2-channel clean pre: M-Audio DMP3
Best 2-channel slightly color vintage sounding: FMR RNP
Most versatile single channel: SP VTB-1
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Now, comments on the VTB1.

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Auditioning every pass was like bringing up a different quality. All of the first three passes sounded great — so it's more of a matter of deciding which setting would help the track best sit in the overall scheme of the recording. After selecting what we felt were the best passes on each take, we did some A/B'ing. I must say, as much as I like the Radius 40, the difference of the VTB-1 was surprising. In technical terms, the VTB-1 completely blew the doors off the Radius 40. I have been a long-time user of high-end and mid-range TL Audio products, and though I have never felt the mic pre on the Radius 40 is outstanding, as an overall tube-hybrid front-end for a project studio at $600 or under, it's hard to beat. After hearing the VTB-1, I've changed my mind.

The difference in sound between the units could be compared metaphorically to the the Radius 40 sounding like a drop of ink on a piece of paper with bleeding around the center spot. The VTB-1, on the other hand, sounds more like a defined, deliberate mark with little to no bleeding around the edges, even as the dial is cranked and the tube pushed harder. The sound of the VTB-1 is warm without sacrificing definition.

I have never heard a mic pre under $1,000 that sounds and acts like the VTB-1.
=======================================

Now, how in the hell is a guy to choose between these two pres. Maybe the VTB1 would give me more options with the starved plate tube gimmick, but that Rane sure makes you take notice. It has a Burr Brown opamp. Does the VTB1? Which one of these two? Or, is there something at $200 that I should be looking at, single channel? Really, I am looking for clean, but the tube option like the VTB1 might help in recording bass and vocals.

Well, Which one, or maybe they are really close to the same quality?

Signed
Tired of researching this shit only to hear awesome thing about two or three different pres, and no way to tell which, if any, are more true.

Jeff
 
Any of the above will do just fine. I bought the DMP3 because I liked the way it sounded on the acoustic guitar clips that I heard--and it's stereo. It's one of the great recording gear bang-for-the-buck bargains IMO.
 
I feel your pain

I'm right there with you myself, except my acoustic mics are ECM 8000's, and my vocal mic is a V67, so count your blessings.

I don't really know shit, but I am pretty good at deductive reasoning, so here's my .02 on your situation. You sound like someone whose funds are limited, so I won't even bother with the 'save your money for an RNP (or Grace, or whatever)' routine. I think it's far more important to just get recording and develop some recording chops so that you can figure out for yourself what you like and don't like and need and don't need. ( I'm really just lecturing myself here. Self, are ya listenin'?) And I don't know who those recommendations were from (although I can guess the VTB-1 review) and I don't wanna know. It just starts people sniping at each other.

First off, if someone were ranking pre's under $500, and the Rane was the best single channel clean, the the best 2 channel clean would be - 2 Ranes! Still under $500. I don't get their logic. But your criteria wasn't $500, it was $200, so never mind that.

If you're going to be recording acoustic guitar with 2 mics ( I hesitate to say stereo, 'cause that's not always how it comes out), and, let's face it, you are, then you're gonna need 2 channels. Period. Two channels under $200 (new) = DMP3.

While some may feel the Rane is superior (and even then, probably not by much), unless you get a good deal used, two of them would exceed your $200 limit. So rule that out.

Pricewise, same with the VTB-1. Two new ones would exceed your limit, so rule that out as well. Also, while many have liked their VTB-1's, there's only one person I remember raving about it in that fashion. And not that his opinion counts any less than anyone elses, quite the contrary. He should know more about the subject than most here. I'm just saying his passion for it was in the extreme minority. On top of that, most users didn't think it fared as well as a bass DI.

My advice would be to get a DMP3 now, since my guess it that your acoustic sound is probably very important to you and you'll want to be using 2 mics on it. You'll probably want to be using 2 mics on your tube amp at some point also. Later, scratch together enough (about $50-$70) for an ART tube MP to use as a bass DI.

To the others, sorry for the babblage.

Mr. Obvious
 
I own a pair of VTB1's and love them. If I were to buy just based on what I've read here, then I'd go with the DMP3, because I think most here have preferred it.

I'd imagine you can get great results from either. One thing though, if adding some tube is your desire then definitely go with the VTB1 because it will allow the adding of a tube circuit without the noise that other budget tube pre's seem to be plagued with. The VTB1 is VERY quiet. The DMP3 doesn't have the tube option... But, again, it's also very quiet, and universally liked.
 
I've heard 2 of the three pres: the vtb-1 and the dmp3. I like both of them and until recently owned them both for a 9 monthish stretch. The dmp3 is going to be a really good "clean" 2 channels--it's on the bright side of things, which I can imagine will be good for acoustic guitars but not necessarily so great on electrics. The vtb-1 is going to be a pre more on the neutral side of things compared to the dmp3. I usually added some toob to vocals when using the vtb-1. It's not the greatest DI in the world, but is perfectly ok IMO.

I've never heard the Rane so I won't comment...though I'm really interested in it for a new pre.

In the end, I let go of the dmp3 and vtb-1 to upgrade, but I'll say that they were fine for my uses when I had them. I can't see you going wrong with either... it just depends on budget.
 
i have the VTB1, and while i can't comment on the other two, i did want to throw in my 23cents worth on the VTB1.

i use mine primarily as a Bass DI. I know a lot of folks don't like it for that, but it does fine with the 2 basses i use (a 70's Fender PBass and an early 90s low-end Yamaha). i'm SURE there are better bass DI's out there (*cough* countryman), but it does the job. i've also used it as a guitar DI with varying results.

the one thing i REALLY like about the VTB1 is the impedence switch. you can switch it between 50 and 200ohms, and this little switch can really give some extra "balls" to dynamic mics that otherwise sound kind of anemic through it. an SM57 took on an entirely new (and MUCH more pleasing) character when run at 50ohms instead of 200. Same with my RE-38.


i've got my eye out for a used MS1B, just b/c i want to add that flavor......but honestly, i'm saving up for an RNP, b/c i need a decent preamp for kick/snare, and the RNP is reportedly pretty solid on that front.


cheers,
wade
 
I own two Rane MLM series, that are based on the INA163 circuit used by the Rane MS1b. Note that only the "B" suffix has the INA163 IC. The older MS1x series use something else. My Rane MLM pre's are very quiet, detailed and nice quality. To my ears, they are a noticeable improvement over typical Mackie consoles.

One advantage of the MS1b over my two is a true +48 phantom power. Both my MLM provide +15 volts, and this is iffy for some devices that require a true +48.

For example, my Countryman Type 85 DI will run on phantom power, but the manufacturer says it must be 24v or higher, and the battery must be removed to use this lower voltage. Otherwise, the DI will auto switch between battery and +48v with no user intervention.

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The DMP3 kinda put me off, solely because of the VU meters. I have a nagging predisposition that meters in low-end gear are inherently cheesy and worthless. The lifetime warranty soothes this.

On the positive side, I really like the extra features such as the two-stage gain controls. For me, this is more useful than the tube blend feature in the VTB-1.

Question: how does the DPM3 sound?
 
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I figured as much. I've contacted the seller on GearSlutz who is selling two DMP3 for $100 each.

I figure I can add the DMP3 to my live performance rack, and feed its two outputs into my existing Rane MLM-82a pre/mixer. This will give me true +48 phantom power in two channels, which I cannot get from either of my MLM series Ranes.
 
I missed out on the DMP3... got there too late, and both were already sold.

I'm sure there will be another one...

Still, a bummer overall. The price was right at 66%, which is what I like to pay for used gear in good shape. Evidently they sell new for $160.
 
I'll let you know what they both sound like when they arrive!

Just kidding, they were gone by the time I asked about them too.

Recently got a M-Audio Duo that was blown out by GC for $150 "out the door".

Excellent value IMHO.
Included was free multi-track software, and
other goodies "bundled" with it.
The pre's are the same as in the DMP2.
Got it primarily for the USB connection feature
to eventually learn "computer" recording.

I used the DMP3 before, it's nice and clean.
The DMP2 is similar.

Also have the VTB-1.

Chris
 
Well, after checking more threads here, I have learned that the DMP3 uses the Burr Brown opamp, just as the Rane ms1b uses. What opamp does the VTB1 use? I hear it's class A/B. What does this mean, and at the risk of the two Chess boys throwing down over the DMP3 and the VTB1, which unit would generally be thought of as better designed? Don't even mention the starved plate tube thing in the VTB1, cause that can be bypassed. In fact, I would love to see the Chess boys duke it out over the DMP3 and the VTB1. I have never heard them battle over the opamp thing and the A/B class thing, and why one would be better than the other. Just like the old days in the school yeard, I want to see the dust fly while the rest of us cheer them on until the teacher finally pulls them apart. The result might be that they will help me make my decision between the two, which will be made in the next couple days. Sio, to start things off, Chessrock walks up to Chessperov (spelling?), with a DMP3 strapped to his back. He gives him an open hand slap that rings out in the school yard, and says, "the DMP3 is way better than the VTB1, punk" "It has Burr Brown opamps in it" "What you got to say, huh?"
 
That's some funny stuff, Jeff. :D :D


I'm sorry I can't make this in to the kind of all-out bloodbath you were looking for . . . but all three are good pres for the money. I've had particularly good (sometimes stunning) luck with the Rane on accoustic guitar and hand percussion. The DMP3 seems the quietest of the bunch and makes an unusually good transparent DI (two of them, in fact) and leads in the best bang/buck category. The vtb-1 is good, too. I didn't own it for long enough to take full advantage of it's variable impedence feature, but that might be a nice thing to have around for things like ribbon mics (or anything else that's more sensitive to loading).

I'm not sure that either one would be considered a "better design." The vtb-1, I believe is mostly discreet class a/b if I'm not mistaken, making it a bit more complex and involving of a design, I would assume. The dmp3 and rane are much simpler, but they're based on a really nice opamp that's also used in some pretty high-end stuff.
 
No DMP#'s at Guitar C, anywhere

I just called my local Guitar Center (Knoxville), armed to show them that the DMP3 was sold to numerous people for $119, and the salesman said that they were no longer carried, and that they didn't have any. I asked if he could ckeck other stores, and he said no other stores anywhere had them either. There's quite a few GC in this nation, I find it hard to believe that not one has a single DMP3. If any of you know about one, let me know. I am ready to buy either the VTB1, or the DMP3, right now. TODAY!!

Jeff
 
Jeff, you have a good sense of humor!

So much of this is personal taste and how mic's and pre's interact with one another.
Sometimes an objectively WORSE piece of...gear can sound better in popular music because it has a certain "sound".

On Springsteen's "Nebraska", for example, he carried around the 4 track cassette demo for a while in his pocket (!) that eventually became the album. They tried to make it "better" in the studio
with the E Street Band hot off the road, using 2" analog, blah blah blah. But they couldn't match the authentic tone of the little cassette tape done by Bruce, all by his lonesome.

The point of the story is don't get too hung up in what's "best".
(been there done that)

A good performance is a good performance!

Chris
 
And one more thing..

If you're planning to ever use the pre live, the VTB-1 looks to me to have the better gig survivability chances than the others.
So you could always retire it to live duty once you get your
Manley or Great River! :)

Chris
 
I've got a Rane MS1b in to check out, it's a cool preamp. Quite clean with smooth gain staging. Chessrock says it's similar to the M-Audio model you're looking at, and I've never used that box so cannot compare.

So far the Rane on acoustic guitar and vocals was clean and quite useful.

War

Warren Dent
www.frontendaudio.com
 
chessparov said:
If you're planning to ever use the pre live, the VTB-1 looks to me to have the better gig survivability chances than the others.
Click to expand...
Could you go into detail on this please?

I was hunting around for an MS1b for on-location work, but have changed my mind in favor of the DMP3.

In the hands of a caring adult, what is your opinion about the construction quality and sturdiness of the DMP3 for location work? I'd hang it and the wart in a mini-rack along with a digital mini-disk.
 
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