ramshackle - beck cover

[heatmiser]

Hi,

I had nothing to do today and no new material, so I did a cover of a beck tune from odelay - ramshackle. I did this once before in 2005 on tape, which was cool, but kind of rough.

I mixed this on different speakers than what I normally use and they're kind of bright. As a result, I think maybe this mix sounds a little dull? Do I need to give it another go and brighten it up some, or is it ok?

It's a super mellow and repetitive track, so hopefully not too boring, but I think I worked some cool sounds into it here and there...let me know what you think.

Original, 04/05 mix:



Mix 2 - 04/06:



Thanks,
Pete

 

[dobro]

The stuff you have hard left and right is dwarfing what's in the middle a bit. It's difficult to make out the bvs. The hard left/right stuff is a bit dark too. Cool song. Nice delivery, but the mix needs work, I think. There's something about the vocal - it sounds sort of...abandoned - a kind of disconnect between the vocal and that spacious stuff you got going left and right. What would it sound like if you both turned it up and put some reverb on it? Or some delay?

 

[Mr Clean]

I'm a big Beck fan and think this is pretty damn good. I get what dobro is saying about the spaciousness but I don't think there is a mix breaker in there, IMO. I really like it. Nice and chilled out groove. Sounds great at volume here in my corner of the world anyway.

You voice sounds a bit like Willy Mason on this. (That's not a put down, just an observation)

I really like it.

 

[jm67]

I really like the playing and arrangement, but the guitars sound a little muddy (too much low middle across the board). I agree the vocals sound a little dry - more reverb would probably help. Adding a little warmth to the vocal would probably help also. In this case I might be tempted to retrack, and get closer to the mic to get a breathier, warmer, and more intimate vocal treatment. Despite these comments I enjoyed the song.

 

[heatmiser]

New Mix

Thanks so much guys.

This was really helpful. I think you sort of pinned down some of my general concerns more precisely. I went back this morning and re-tracked the lead vocals singing much closer to the mic, and there's a lot more verb now too - perhaps too much, but fuck it. It still has a strange quality to it, but I think it's better?

I also spent some time carving out lows and low mids from some of the guitars, but I think they're going to be a bit dark regardless. I kind of wanted them that way to a point. With the electrics, I was almost going for a xylophone kind of tone if that makes any sense...anyway I also moved some guitars around a little and brought some closer to center so it isn't so spacious and perhaps disjointed sounding.

Still kind of dull mix overall I'm afraid. I must have just gone down that path while tracking without realizing it.

Here's the new mix with your comments in mind (I'll add it to the top as well). Thanks again!

 

[Mr Clean]

Very nice. I liked the original version as it was but this sounds much smoother. The vocals sound great to me.

Still kind of dull mix overall I'm afraid.

I don't find it dull at all.

Top drawer

 

[heatmiser]

Very nice. I liked the original version as it was but this sounds much smoother. The vocals sound great to me.

Great. Thanks!

Yeah, I could have lived with the 1st mix, especially for a cover, and the 2nd still has some of the same problems, but not as much I think. I like it better anyway. Thanks for checking back!

 

[dobro]

I went back this morning and re-tracked the lead vocals singing much closer to the mic, and there's a lot more verb now too - perhaps too much, but fuck it. It still has a strange quality to it, but I think it's better?

I like it way better. Not cuz you retracked the vocal - I liked the old vocal, I like the new one - but because it sounds better.

I also spent some time carving out lows and low mids from some of the guitars, but I think they're going to be a bit dark regardless. I kind of wanted them that way to a point.

Yeah, it's just going to have that darkness - if you EQ it out, it'll lose.

With the electrics, I was almost going for a xylophone kind of tone if that makes any sense...anyway I also moved some guitars around a little and brought some closer to center so it isn't so spacious and perhaps disjointed sounding.

I think there's still a distance between center and sides - hard left and right still sound more forward and the vocal still sounds further back - but it's sounding better. Don't hate me for thinking out loud here, but what does it sound like if you turn the vocal up 2 dB and put a smaller space on it? If reverb, a smaller space. If delay, a shorter one. Or what does it sound like if you turn down the wings a dB or two?

Still kind of dull mix overall I'm afraid. I must have just gone down that path while tracking without realizing it.

Dull mix? I don't understand that. What I understand is that you're trying things out and the new mix sounds better.

 

[TripleM]

I like the second mix better than the first. It's a little "lighter" sounding and the vocals are more easily heard.

In both mixes I'm noticing a slight cloudiness in the instrument tracks (except that distorted guitar on the left that comes in every now and then). Like excess stuff in the 300hz-1200hz range. Even in mix two, I still think the bass is a little too strong in the low end - like 60hz - 100hz. I'd pull that back a bit and then maybe raise the track level by a db or two.

 

[robgreen]

I like the second mix better than the first. It's a little "lighter" sounding and the vocals are more easily heard.

In both mixes I'm noticing a slight cloudiness in the instrument tracks (except that distorted guitar on the left that comes in every now and then). Like excess stuff in the 300hz-1200hz range. Even in mix two, I still think the bass is a little too strong in the low end - like 60hz - 100hz. I'd pull that back a bit and then maybe raise the track level by a db or two.

Hey trip, I don't know if you know the original or not, but Beck's version has that almost boomy sounding bassline to it too. I think Heat's got pretty close to replicating that and I probably wouldn't change that if I were him to be honest.

Mix 2 is really good Pete. There's a bit of discordance around the low end on the first mix, but I think carving out some of the lows has pretty much resolved that. Vocals sound excellent - the main vocal and the harmony blend together very well indeed. I'm wondering whether the outro could do with some of the lower mids to be fed back in to give a bit more body while the xylophone guitar lead noodles away? Dunno, I could do with listening a couple more times.

You've pretty much nailed the different parts from the arrangement though. I know you queried whether it was a bit dark, but I think your mix is actually a bit brighter than the original if anything. He doesn't generally let a whole lot of air in on those Odelay mixes.

Great choice of cover from a great era of Beck's output. I understand he's got a new album out. I've not heard it yet, but from reviews it sounds like it's Sea Change Pt 2. You bought it? I finally got round to buying his last record (Modern Guilt) a few months back - took me a few listens to warm to, but once it did I loved it.

 

[TripleM]

Hey trip, I don't know if you know the original or not, but Beck's version has that almost boomy sounding bassline to it too. I think Heat's got pretty close to replicating that and I probably wouldn't change that if I were him to be honest.

Nope, I'm not familiar with the original. I know a couple of Beck tunes, but I'm not an expert by any stretch. Thanks for the info. It sounds like he got what he was going for.

 

[heatmiser]

I think there's still a distance between center and sides - hard left and right still sound more forward and the vocal still sounds further back - but it's sounding better. Don't hate me for thinking out loud here, but what does it sound like if you turn the vocal up 2 dB and put a smaller space on it? If reverb, a smaller space. If delay, a shorter one. Or what does it sound like if you turn down the wings a dB or two?

I don't know...no hate obviously, but I kind of like where it's at now. I actually imprinted the verb on the vox this time while tracking which I know is a big no-no, but I was lazy and wanted to skip a step later on. Can't back it off now .

Dull mix? I don't understand that.

I just mean dull as in the opposite of bright.

You know? Just kind of bass heavy with little top end...I dunno.

 

[heatmiser]

I like the second mix better than the first. It's a little "lighter" sounding and the vocals are more easily heard.

In both mixes I'm noticing a slight cloudiness in the instrument tracks (except that distorted guitar on the left that comes in every now and then). Like excess stuff in the 300hz-1200hz range. Even in mix two, I still think the bass is a little too strong in the low end - like 60hz - 100hz. I'd pull that back a bit and then maybe raise the track level by a db or two.

Thanks MMM. It's a new bass guitar and this wasn't a great track to test it on (just like 2 notes or whatever!), and maybe I got a bit carried away.

Yeah, cloudy...you can hear right from the opening chords that it's going to be that way throughout I think. I used a classical guitar for most of the main parts as I couldn't finger pick it too well with the steel string, and I'm not good at tracking nylon stringed guitars. They always sound boomy and, well, kind of dull. I made some low mid cuts there already and not sure I want to go further. Good thing this was just a cover! Thanks again.

 

[heatmiser]

Hey trip, I don't know if you know the original or not, but Beck's version has that almost boomy sounding bassline to it too. I think Heat's got pretty close to replicating that and I probably wouldn't change that if I were him to be honest.

Mix 2 is really good Pete. There's a bit of discordance around the low end on the first mix, but I think carving out some of the lows has pretty much resolved that. Vocals sound excellent - the main vocal and the harmony blend together very well indeed. I'm wondering whether the outro could do with some of the lower mids to be fed back in to give a bit more body while the xylophone guitar lead noodles away? Dunno, I could do with listening a couple more times.

You've pretty much nailed the different parts from the arrangement though. I know you queried whether it was a bit dark, but I think your mix is actually a bit brighter than the original if anything. He doesn't generally let a whole lot of air in on those Odelay mixes.

Great choice of cover from a great era of Beck's output. I understand he's got a new album out. I've not heard it yet, but from reviews it sounds like it's Sea Change Pt 2. You bought it? I finally got round to buying his last record (Modern Guilt) a few months back - took me a few listens to warm to, but once it did I loved it.

Cheers rob. Thanks so much for your thoughts. I generally am not a fan of straight forward covers, but this one is kind of accurate for better or worse. I probably should've taken more liberties with it. The whole ending I invented, but it didn't have to go on for like 2 minutes or whatever . You're right that it probably could use more bulk (so to speak) during the outro as all of those higher guitar parts might be better with more heft beneath them.

The part where I was really going for a xylophone sort of sound is the electric playing throughout the verses along with the classical guitars. I threw a ton of verb, tremolo and delay in there while tracking and then palm muted the strings, which gave it this odd, thick, percussive sort of sound that I liked, but it is very dense and has little top end which, when combined with the boomy classical guitars, makes for the mud that others are hearing I think.

I don't have his latest, but I've seen him on TV playing some of the new stuff, and yes, it sounded so much like Sea Change or something from his past. I guess I was a bit disappointed by that. I didn't give Modern Guilt enough of a chance...only heard it maybe once or twice so far.

Nope, I'm not familiar with the original. I know a couple of Beck tunes, but I'm not an expert by any stretch. Thanks for the info. It sounds like he got what he was going for.

Not exactly...maybe more of a fortunate accident ?

 

[K-dub]

I really liked this, bud. No nits. Lovely layering.

 

[Greg_L]

Mix 2 def sounds better to me. I I think some of the wide acousticy guitars are kind of muddled and dull, but overall the mix is good. Good vocals.

 

[jm67]

Yep, I like Mix 2 better - it's sounding quite nice now. I've always been a Beck fan although I don't own all his albums. I really like Blackbird Chain from the new album, and I've always had a soft spot for Nobody's Fault But My Own from Mutations. Anyway, well done!

 

[propman]

Pete, I love it. It's better (in my opinion) that Beck's version and I never get tired of hearing your voice. The mix (number 2) sounds right on the mark to me. Songs take me places mentally when I listen to them. Your songs (covers and originals) always make me think of warm, summer days and open up the floodgates to let memories -- pleasant ones -- come through. That's my favorite kind of music and you seemingly crank it out as effortlessly as people blink.

I'm glad the drum machine has made a very appropriate resurgence but I have to ask: Have you gotten another kit yet? You should really think about it if not because your drumming added a lot to your sound.

Thanks for the cool listen today. I enjoyed it thoroughly. It'd be a nice touch to maybe have the sound of far-off crickets/frogs over the last few bars and the outro. What do you think?

 

[heatmiser]

I really liked this, bud. No nits. Lovely layering.

That is great - thank you!

Mix 2 def sounds better to me. I I think some of the wide acousticy guitars are kind of muddled and dull, but overall the mix is good. Good vocals.

Thanks Greg. Agreed on the main acoustic parts. It's that damned nylon stringed guitar. I never can get it to sound good with other instruments (sounds fine solo), but for some reason I keep using it anyway.

 

[heatmiser]

Yep, I like Mix 2 better - it's sounding quite nice now. I've always been a Beck fan although I don't own all his albums. I really like Blackbird Chain from the new album, and I've always had a soft spot for Nobody's Fault But My Own from Mutations. Anyway, well done!

Hey - thanks for checking back. Your advice was very helpful. I might otherwise have just fiddled with the existing vocal track endlessly to no avail, but re-tracking set me on the right course there, so thank you.

I too very much like Nobody's Fault...that whole record is strange, but nice.

Pete, I love it. It's better (in my opinion) that Beck's version and I never get tired of hearing your voice. The mix (number 2) sounds right on the mark to me. Songs take me places mentally when I listen to them. Your songs (covers and originals) always make me think of warm, summer days and open up the floodgates to let memories -- pleasant ones -- come through. That's my favorite kind of music and you seemingly crank it out as effortlessly as people blink.

I'm glad the drum machine has made a very appropriate resurgence but I have to ask: Have you gotten another kit yet? You should really think about it if not because your drumming added a lot to your sound.

Thanks for the cool listen today. I enjoyed it thoroughly. It'd be a nice touch to maybe have the sound of far-off crickets/frogs over the last few bars and the outro. What do you think?

Awesome. Thanks dude.

No, sadly I have no drum kit. I had one for two years and it was awesome. I really enjoyed playing and recording them even though it severely restricted the kinds of beats I could have in my songs. Some day maybe I'll get another one?

On this, I actually added a lot of hand percussion to try to offset the mechanized beat - bongos, shaker, tambourine...even a toy cymbal that sounds like a mini-gong. All of that is mixed fairly low though, so maybe not too apparent.

Your outro idea might work well, yeah, but I'll probably leave that as is. I don't know if I have any available tracks left at this point anyway!