R U going to heaven
- Thread starter dogooder
- Start date
TAE
All you have is now
Time will tell about the circus and the wishing well.
Catholic raised, heaven sounds like a cool way to end this gig. I am all in for that wonderful happy ending. After many years of pondering the end, I'm getting close to the finish line. Crazy.
I am part of the church of man where we realize that we are living in a unexplainable miracle. Beyond our paygrade. Think an ant trying to pull off algebra equations.
Some of our greatest scientific minds have figured out of lot about what all this is that's going on.
My favorite "proof" that we go on is the conservation law of energy. energy can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another. What makes my heart beat, my brain work? Energy / Life. When that sperm penetrates the egg a unique and separate entity comes to be. The energy of the egg and sperm donors joins together to carry on. A miracle.
Probably about 9 years old I asked one of the Sisters where God came from. She said God has always been and always will be....But how does something come from nothing? Well that's the divine mystery....Hmmm maybe God can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another.
As far as heaven in the biblical sense I don't know. I observe that we are, and that I am. Funny that is what God told Moses when he asked what his name was "I AM". My best guess is that we are all "children" or a part of the great I AM. That we each have a soul / energy within us that does not end but rather gets converted from one form to another when we expire. We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon. As Jimi once mused. We are in the process of evolution, almost at death with ourselves yet on the staircase of birth.
A few of my musings on the topic
Perspective.
The sun goes up
The sun goes down
In the end it's just the world spinning round and round
Sometimes we're up
Sometimes we're down
In the end it's just our lives going round and round and round
It's a spinning top
It never stops
It just goes on and on and on
It's important to see
That it's plain to see
There's more to life than meets the eye
Other worlds
In a world full of rules
In a world ran by fools
What can you do
But you are not alone
As you carry the stone
You are not alone
And yes your soul lives on
Yes your soul live on
On and on
I don't believe them
Don't trust them at all
They don't mean to deceive you
But with words
They buildup the wall
Climb over
Climb over
Come see for yourself
Life is one dimension
Don't get stuck on a shelf
Can't see the light
I don't like it much
I can't seem to stay in touch
With what's going on
In this time and space
I can't seem to find my place
Can anyone here show me the way
I can't see the light
Can't see the darkness for the night
I can't see the light, can't see the light
Though I feel it burning down
upon my head
Kinda makes me wish that I was dead
far far from here
In another time and space
then perhaps I could my place
Can anyone here show me the way
Stand in the dark
As I stand in the dark
In space in time
Within my heart
I feel it's a crime
When I think of the load
The weight that some must carry
It's impossible
To say the way I feel
But in my heart, In my soul
I know it's real
As I stand in the dark
All alone
Within this world
This illusion
This danger zone
I'm not alone
There's an entity
A burning inner light
That tells me when I am going wrong
Tells me when I'm going right
We all stand in the dark
At some point in time
Within this world this illusion
This nursery rhyme
You'll have your time
Stand in dark
Catholic raised, heaven sounds like a cool way to end this gig. I am all in for that wonderful happy ending. After many years of pondering the end, I'm getting close to the finish line. Crazy.
I am part of the church of man where we realize that we are living in a unexplainable miracle. Beyond our paygrade. Think an ant trying to pull off algebra equations.
Some of our greatest scientific minds have figured out of lot about what all this is that's going on.
My favorite "proof" that we go on is the conservation law of energy. energy can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another. What makes my heart beat, my brain work? Energy / Life. When that sperm penetrates the egg a unique and separate entity comes to be. The energy of the egg and sperm donors joins together to carry on. A miracle.
Probably about 9 years old I asked one of the Sisters where God came from. She said God has always been and always will be....But how does something come from nothing? Well that's the divine mystery....Hmmm maybe God can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another.
As far as heaven in the biblical sense I don't know. I observe that we are, and that I am. Funny that is what God told Moses when he asked what his name was "I AM". My best guess is that we are all "children" or a part of the great I AM. That we each have a soul / energy within us that does not end but rather gets converted from one form to another when we expire. We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon. As Jimi once mused. We are in the process of evolution, almost at death with ourselves yet on the staircase of birth.
A few of my musings on the topic
Perspective.
The sun goes up
The sun goes down
In the end it's just the world spinning round and round
Sometimes we're up
Sometimes we're down
In the end it's just our lives going round and round and round
It's a spinning top
It never stops
It just goes on and on and on
It's important to see
That it's plain to see
There's more to life than meets the eye
Other worlds
In a world full of rules
In a world ran by fools
What can you do
But you are not alone
As you carry the stone
You are not alone
And yes your soul lives on
Yes your soul live on
On and on
I don't believe them
Don't trust them at all
They don't mean to deceive you
But with words
They buildup the wall
Climb over
Climb over
Come see for yourself
Life is one dimension
Don't get stuck on a shelf
Can't see the light
I don't like it much
I can't seem to stay in touch
With what's going on
In this time and space
I can't seem to find my place
Can anyone here show me the way
I can't see the light
Can't see the darkness for the night
I can't see the light, can't see the light
Though I feel it burning down
upon my head
Kinda makes me wish that I was dead
far far from here
In another time and space
then perhaps I could my place
Can anyone here show me the way
Stand in the dark
As I stand in the dark
In space in time
Within my heart
I feel it's a crime
When I think of the load
The weight that some must carry
It's impossible
To say the way I feel
But in my heart, In my soul
I know it's real
As I stand in the dark
All alone
Within this world
This illusion
This danger zone
I'm not alone
There's an entity
A burning inner light
That tells me when I am going wrong
Tells me when I'm going right
We all stand in the dark
At some point in time
Within this world this illusion
This nursery rhyme
You'll have your time
Stand in dark
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
Definition of Hell: To be stuck in Heaven with a load of smug christians.
Heaven and Hell are the same place. Maybe this is heaven.
Heaven and Hell are the same place. Maybe this is heaven.
Papanate
Well-known member
I don't know what's going to happen - I don't believe the Christian view of heaven - sitting around in eternity and worshipping god - that just seems boring - especially for God - I also don't believe the traditional view of hell - like God is going to punish people for eternity for 80 years of mistakes.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I'd say that in order to "know" whether one is going to Heaven, one must first know what Heaven is and what the entry requirements are.
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
I was walking down the main shopping street in my city in UK and there was this manic guy in the corner shouting to the passers by... repent sinners !! You are all going to hell!! This cool black kid walked past him and said "No man, going to HMV"
Wet myself
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Although there is a "Christian view of Heaven" it doesn't really gell or go anywhere. Christian views of Heaven are assumed to come from various passages in a few pages of the Bible ~ but there isn't really anything written in any of the 66 documents that make up the Bible that speak of Heaven the way "the Christian view of Heaven" is assumed to be or often portrayed.
So for me, as a Christian, I asked myself a few decades back, where do these ideas and images and concepts of Heaven actually come from ?
The way "Heaven" has been portrayed by many Christians down the centuries, "boring" is being polite.
It sounds nightmarish to me. Actually, it sounds almost like non-existence. And I believe in the afterlife.
I don't want to go all biblical on you {
}, but there are a number of bible words that are translated as "Heaven" that have other meanings like sky, air, starry, heavenly, astrologers, mid-air, horizon, height, exalted, high, haughty, arrogance, highest point, high position, expanse, magnificent, lofty throne, princely mansions, mighty, proud. Virtually none of the instances in either OT or NT give a sense of a place in which people will reside. It's often conceptual rather than actual.In point of fact, when God "speaks" or some of the people whose writings are in the Bible write about the afterlife, it is in the context of a recreated Heavens and earth ~ 2 distinct planes.
The idea behind it is similar to what the original creation project was meant to be ~ a project of love and cooperation. The biblical writers are, in my opinion, deliberately not forthcoming about what the afterlife will be like, because no one can know exactly what their holiday next year is going to bring. There are, at best, a few pointers, such as it won't contain the hassles and crappy shit of this world. People don't think of God as being cooperative but that is at the heart of God's view of humanity.
Now......this is a biggie. I'm happy to, like markmann, talk about this all day and all night if anyone wants to PM me.
I will say though, that this is way, way more of a nuanced topic than ever takes place among and between both opponents and proponents of the view.
I wish people that don't really know each other and basically only meet online could have these conversations of depth in an open forum and actually converse, yes, get passionate, even a bit angry at times, without descending into the kind of insulting rancour that we saw all too frequently in the covid, politics and Trump threads over the last couple of years.
But alas, we can't.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
When you say 'smug' what do you mean exactly ? I ask because there's a slight implication there that Christians are by the very nature of being so, smug. I'm just curious if you draw a distinction between Christians that aren't smug and those that are. If you do, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But then, I bristle at smugness in any group of people. Of course, I also have to acknowledge that it's my definition of 'smug' and that might say more about me than it does about those I think of as smug.
In a roundabout way, it's not that they're the same place, but rather, the actual definitions of both "places" are vague and to be honest, mean very different things to the different people using them often, although, like 'love' it is assumed that every time the word is used, that there's always a shared understanding ~ which I find to rarely be the case.
If it is, I'd rather be in Jersey !
Gotta love the humour of that kid. It's a bit like that old guy on the bus having a go at some noisy schoolkids, shouting at them "I went and fought in the war so you could have the freedom to make noise on the bus !!" and one of the kids turning to him and saying "well, then you should be really happy that that is what we're doing, Grandad !"
I'll also add this; if it were true that all those people were going to Hell, standing on the corner of the street shouting it at them isn't going to perk up their interest to ascertain if there may be some truth in what was being said {shouted}.
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
I dont mock the poor guy shouting, maybe he had seen the light or had depression, I have depression too and am trying to deal with it in the best way I can. My point is that just share the love and happiness and lose the anger and hate. Humour and laughing is the best medicine. I try to be happy and lose the hate now.. Hate and anger is just fear....fear divides us all.
The only thing we have to fear is... fear itself.
TAE
All you have is now
I have watched way to many Near Death experiences on Youtube...Anita Moorjani's Ted talk "dying to be me" on her death bed experience is astounding.
Read a few books on the subject to. Enough for me to comfortably believe it isn't over when were done here.
That and the fact that I have had multiple personal spiritual experiences / interventions / awakenings that leave me 99.99% certain we're all on an uncredible journey and when we finish here it's going to be a surprise for all of us.
If you have never watched this I encourage you to do so.
Read a few books on the subject to. Enough for me to comfortably believe it isn't over when were done here.
That and the fact that I have had multiple personal spiritual experiences / interventions / awakenings that leave me 99.99% certain we're all on an uncredible journey and when we finish here it's going to be a surprise for all of us.
If you have never watched this I encourage you to do so.
60's guy
Well-known member
Open forum? Prime Time is an open forum that even guests of HR can read.
How are past covid, political, and Trump threads relevant to this thread?
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
I just can not see why you would worry about anything TAE. You have a perfect life, you have a great family, you have your children and grandchildren, you just played a lovely gig with famous people and you live where the sun always shines. You met and gigged with Eddie and Dave back in the day and you are able to not do drugs and just have a few beers and not overdo it, I envy you xxx. This is a nice video but I am sorry I do not buy into it sadly, sorry. I understand the sentiment though xxx
My life is failures of relationships and failure with everything really. Hopes and dreams gone. Oh dear, I am going to get a kicking, sorry
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
No covid no political and no Trump, its over. Lets move on?
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
60's guy
Well-known member
To the best of my recollection attending Christian Sunday School.....I can't recall being shown a picture of Heaven, but I do remember being taught that the "entry requirements" into Heaven had something to do with adhering to the Ten Commandments.
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
The song is a critique of how they were bullied and abused mentally in the Catholic school system. When Frank sings "you will never go to heaven" it was everything the bullying teachers would say to him if he did anything wrong
TAE
All you have is now
All we have is hope brother. Trust me along with all the cool things and blessings in my life I have failed many many times. I have made huge mistakes I regret. I have been screwed around, cheated and had shit stolen. I've lost a ton of people I love. I get knocked down, I get up again nothing's gonna keep me down. As I have mentioned before it's the blessings like my kids and grandkids that tilt the scale WAY heavy on the side of win. Playing with VH and Quiet Riot is a great bragging point when shooting the shit with buddies but on my scale of good and bad just a tiny spec of cool in the big picture.
I am sober 35 years. I did and accomplished a lot of cool things loaded but no comparison to what I have gotten to do and experience clean and sober...nope not even a beer in 35 years...
I think it was about 20+ years ago that I got turned on to Andy Andrews and his seven decisions..I've mentioned him to you before. That little book and video supercharged my already positive attitude. Working AA's 12 steps also really helped me get my head right and the blessings have abound. Along with a ton of shit storm nightmare crap that you most often will never ever hear me post about. Again on the scale of life I'm way overpaid. Hoping you can find peace and respect the great things that you have, have done and things in your life that you are not giving the value they deserve.
I leave with you a sad story that can be an example of a REALLY screwed up existence when you're feeling low. It happened to my brother in law about 15 years ago. One day he had a stroke. He was completely paralyzed...COMPLETELY. They knew he was in there because he would moan when friends and loved ones would open his eye lids. The highlights of his day were the nurse coming in to change his diaper or move him to prevent bed sores. Sometimes his kids would come and sit with him through a dodger game...zero conversation..He lived in that shell of hell for over 10 years. Anytime I or someone I care about starts feeling sorry for themselves I remind them of Dave and the bar he set of screwed up. You have a body where everything is working and you can take care of yourself. I am sure you have a TON to be grateful for if you really think about it. If you loved and lost...at least you loved..some never get the chance, not even once...how sad is that.
It is crazy screwed up beautiful world out there..
Seek the good and praise it and don't allow yourself to wallow in the shit.
Fight like hell to get up, clean yourself off and live the dream you were meant to live. And that is ( as my buddy Mr. Q has said before) MANDATORY!
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