quick pre question

Frankly, most any mic pre will work, from the little $39 types to the $6,300+ types. What do you plan to record... vocals, instruments, drums, ? Also, what style are you going for? Some preamps "color" the sound, some don't; some have lots of headroom (which you need for percussion instruments), some don't; some have lots of gain (which you'll need if you ever use a ribbon mic), some don't...

Describe what you're going for, and people can give you some better-informed ideas. :)
 
kid klash said:
Frankly, most any mic pre will work, from the little $39 types to the $6,300+ types. What do you plan to record... vocals, instruments, drums, ? Also, what style are you going for? Some preamps "color" the sound, some don't; some have lots of headroom (which you need for percussion instruments), some don't; some have lots of gain (which you'll need if you ever use a ribbon mic), some don't...

Describe what you're going for, and people can give you some better-informed ideas. :)
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Headroom? Preamps have "headroom"? Errrrrr....I don't think so.

Headroom is more of a "concept" rather than a "spec".
 
It's more than a concept...

Most "wall-wart" powered pres don't have the headroom to handle sharp transients without distorting because the tiny "power supply" (wall wart) can't deliver the current needed to handle the transient. Recording a kick or snare with a $40-$70 wall-wart powered preamp is a good example. One of the most popular low-cost mic pres is the M-Audio AudioBuddy. It works fine for less dynamic sources, but can't even come close to handling the transients of drums because it can't deliver the current. Also, if a condenser mic is used, the AudioBuddy doesn't deliver a true 48v phantom, so that hampers the headroom of the mic.

If you want to dig in a bit deeper, look at the s/n ratio of the preamp, and the current output of the power supply of the mic pre in question, and you should have a pretty good idea if the preamp you're choosing is a good match for the task you'll be using it for.

Anyway, that's my hard-earned $0.02. FWIW. YMMV.
 
s/n ratio isn't "headroom".

Head room is how much louder you can go above your "average" volume before clipping.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, some preamps offer a much better dynamic range and s/n ratio (they are different! and not ENTIRELY connected).

When you start summing signals together, then the concept of "headroom" starts to become pertinent.

Also, it is not generally considered "headroom" when you are talking about the linearity between input and output voltages in a mic preamp. Indeed, some circuit designs do it better. But, that is not "headroom".
 
Ford Van said:
s/n ratio isn't "headroom".

Head room is how much louder you can go above your "average" volume before clipping.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, some preamps offer a much better dynamic range and s/n ratio (they are different! and not ENTIRELY connected).
Click to expand...

True, not ENTIRELY connected, but connected none the less.

Ford Van said:
When you start summing signals together, then the concept of "headroom" starts to become pertinent.
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Headroom consideration needs to start LONG before summing signals... especially when mic'ing drums and other sources that produce huge transient spikes... unless you don't mind clipped individual drum tracks.

Ford Van said:
Also, it is not generally considered "headroom" when you are talking about the linearity between input and output voltages in a mic preamp. Indeed, some circuit designs do it better. But, that is not "headroom".
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We're talking about the ability of a mic preamp to capture and amplify signals without clipping. That's what headroom in a mic preamp is all about.

Do you know of any preamps with tiny power supplies that are capable of handling an acoustic drum kit? I certainly don't. Therefore, if the original poster listed what he/she is trying to capture, those of us that have used many types of preamps could give them a better indication of what kind of preamp to choose for their use. Who knows... if they're planning to record spoken word (books for the blind comes to mind), an AudioBuddy should work just fine. If they're planning to use their AT4047 as overheads for a deathmetal band, and the producer wants "extra clean drum tracks", they aren't gonna get it with a $70 preamp (unless they find a robust mic preamp at a garage sale, next to the $100 Vette or Porsche!) ;)
 
Ford Van said:


How's the drums and percussion on that one?



How about that one?
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Solo the drum tracks for me and I'll let you know. ;)

What mics/mic pres/outboard gear/recorder was used?
 
mr. produca said:
thos options are to steep for me.Is there anything in the $500 range that will give me my mic's worth?
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Probably. What are you using the AT-4047 for?
 
kid klash said:
Solo the drum tracks for me and I'll let you know. ;)

What mics/mic pres/outboard gear/recorder was used?
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Why should I solo the drum tracks? They sound fine in a mix. ;)

Just 4 Fun

On the drums, the overheads preamps were a TL Audio Classic. Everything else was ART's, NOT the Pro MPA either. The kick and snare top went through a dual unit, and the tom's, snare bottom, and hi hat mics went through single unit ART's.

kick - RE 27
snare top and bottom - sm57
toms - sm 57
hi hat - AT 4051
overheads - AT 4033

All recorded to Blackface ADAT's.

Mixed at Sound Impressions via the DDA console to 16 bit DAT. Generally speaking, aside from noise gates, there wasn't anything more than a little eq used from the DDA.

This Is My Cut

ART on the drum overheads, kick, and snare. Mackie pre's on everything else.

kick - re-27
snare top - some GT mic. Dont' remember which
snare bottom - sm57
rack toms - sm57
floor tom - 421
overheads - AT 4033

Recorded on ADAT XT 20's, but digitally transferred back to Blackface ADAT's. Mixed in my bedroom on a Soundcraft Ghost. Again, aside from gates, just a little eq applied.

Sorry man, pretty average gear, and plenty of wall warts used! ;) I don't hear "dirty" drums. ;)
 
Let's note too that on Just 4 Fun, all the percussion was a pair of 4033's via an ART pre.

Bass, DI'ed via an ART pre

Guitar - sm57 via ART

B3/Leslie - pair of 4033 on horn via ART, AKG C1000s on bass speaker via TL Audio Classic.

Vocals, 4033 via ART pre and ART levelar.

This is my cut would have been pretty much the same kind of thing.

Also, both mixes ran through ART preamps between the console and mix down deck.

Lot's more wall warts! ;)
 
In an analog recording, headroom typically covers the range from 0 dB (decibels) to +10 dB. The loudest part of the signal should register in this range on a VU (volume unit) meter. With digital recording, you need to use your equipment so that the loudest part of your signal registers between -10 dB and 0 dB on the VU meter. Recording with a digital recorder usually results in much a lower level of background noise than recording with an analog recorder
 
Ford Van said:
Let's note too that on Just 4 Fun, all the percussion was a pair of 4033's via an ART pre.

Bass, DI'ed via an ART pre

Guitar - sm57 via ART

B3/Leslie - pair of 4033 on horn via ART, AKG C1000s on bass speaker via TL Audio Classic.

Vocals, 4033 via ART pre and ART levelar.

This is my cut would have been pretty much the same kind of thing.

Also, both mixes ran through ART preamps between the console and mix down deck.

Lot's more wall warts! ;)
Click to expand...

None of the sources you mentioned above have sharp transients like drums, other than possibly the stereo mix (which includes the drums) that you ran into your mastering deck. Were the ART preamps used between the mixer and the mastering deck the wall-wart variety? If so, I'm impressed.

Regardless, the recordings turned out very well.

For me, no $40-$70 wall-wart TubeMPs on drums... been there, didn't like the outcome. Other stuff is no problem, especially on electric bass (as a DI).

Don't take me wrong - I've got a bunch of ART wall-wart powered TubeMPs and Levelars, which IMHO are fine for some things, just not drums.

So, back to the original poster's question - it's hard to recommend a mic preamp or channel strip without knowing what you're intending to do with it.
 
Ford Van said:
The kick and snare top went through a dual unit, and the tom's, snare bottom, and hi hat mics went through single unit ART's.
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Also, I recalled that the bass guitar also went through the single units. We had to do that because we didn't want to un-rack the dual unit to and keep the cable length's short.

Now, if you can seriously say that a slapping bass guitar isn't a "transient" signal, you are crazy.

I don't have the mixes available of a bunch of other stuff that was "transient" in nature that used the single ART pre's. But, I have heard NO difference between them and the rack mount dual units I have.

So, I have tracked slappin' bass and toms, and snare bottom, ALL VERY transient instruments, and you have heard it here. So, now what?

I find often that people having problems using that preamp have problems elsewhere. ;)
 
You seem to have some useful insights and information but your delivery and insulting manner make it difficult to hear.
 
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