questions about miking drums on a budget

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Promkingdrummer

New member
I know that this question has probably been asked before, but i have gotten sorta confused after reading so many threads. I am a young musician that does not have much experience with recording. My friends and I have been playing in my friends basement but his parents got tired of the volume, so we are building a room in his barn to play and record. We have about $500 set aside for mics, so my question is which mics would be best for us to record drums, two guitars, a bass, and vocals within the budget(we plan to mic each instrument seperately and run them into a mixer to record on a computer). I have one Sure SM 57 already. If anybody could answer this question, or just give us advice about recording, that would be great. Thanks
 
wow were to start with 500 bucks

but i have been in similar situtations before

use the sm 57 on snare (FREE)
Studio Projects B1 Overhead Left (100)
Studio Projects B1 Overhead Right (100)
Sennhiser E609 on guitar 1 (100)
shure SM 57 on guitar 2 (90)
Behringer GI100 Di Box for bass (30)


i dont know if you can find a decent kick drum mic for 80 bucks

but for 200 you can get the AKG D112


i did the best i could
 
ok, thanks man, one question, if i were to get an akg d112 for the kick drum mic, could i also record the bass cab off of it? and i am hopefully going to be able to get a job soon, so are there better mics that you would suggest for me to save up for? again thanks for the reply.
 
I can get you close, but understand that the $500 won't cover cables, stands, etc. One big issue is whether your mixer provides phantom power, which is required for most condensers, which are usually used for drum overheads. If you have phantom power, the B1's mentioned above are OK. I prefer Marshall MXL603- a matched pair is $200 (all prices I'm quoting are new, from 8thstreet.com). Bass DI mentioned above has issues- namely, you can't hear the bass when you play, which requires a headphone amp and headphones. Cheap mics for kick and bass- Audio-Technica Pro 25. They are $60 each. You'll need 4 mics for drums- kick, snare, and 2 overheads. snare and guitar amps use basically the same mics- Sennheiser e835 or e609 silver ($100 new) or more SM57's. The 57's are easier to find used, in the $60 range. They are $80-100 new.
If you don't have phantom power on your board, you have to use more dynamics as overheads, and the SM57's are barely useable. Vocals are an issue- If you jack the vocals into a PA, it will bleed to every mic in the room. If you don't, then the only way you can hear the singer is to get a headphone amp, and a bunch of headphones.
Ultimately, you come up against the big paradox of band recording. To record everybody simultaneously takes a bunch of mics, stands, cables, preamps, headphones, and headphone distribution, as well as a good mixer. That means a lot of money. It's cheaper to record the parts one at a time, but then the musicians have to be a lot better. Usually, if the musicians were that good, they'd have enough money to buy all that gear. See the problem? The truth is, $500 really doesn't cut it. It's barely enough for a very entry-level mic kit. It doesn't cover the peripherals. So- the first big question is- Do you have phantom power on your board, and do you own any good headphones?-Richie
 
ok, thanks for the reply, yes the mixer does have phantom power but we dont have enough headphones, so would it be better for us to record one part at a time. I know how to mix tracks on the computer because i have played with that some, and we have a whole summer off from school to do nothing else really but practice and try to get some stuff recorded (our only other commitment would be work, and only two of us have jobs so far). We can probably start saving up and come up with a couple hundred more dollars to go toward the mics too. Thanks for all the help so far.
 
I would go with the Yamaha SKRM100 SUBKICK - $229 and can be used for kick or bass. More versatile than the AKG D112 although this is a great kick mic. http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--YAMSUBKICK

57 on snare - Free
I agree on the 603s as overheads and here is the best deal going http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7328344769&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Get two if possible, $160 bucks and you have 4 mics. Use the 2001 for toms, guitars or just room mics.

Go to radio shack buy this transformer http://www.radioshack.com/product.a...name=CTLG_011_002_016_000&product_id=273-1365 and one XLR jack and one 1/4 inch guitar jack. Wire them up and you will also have a great DI box for the bass. Total cost $15. You will use this in conjunction with a mic'ed amp signal. Although using this transformer provides a pretty fat DI signal over most low end boxes.

Also pick up a V67 MXL for vocals or another SM57. The 67 for ballads or the 57 for louder stuff. Either one can be found for $89 or less.

Total $493, use the last $7 for Dairy Queen. :D
 
if your soundcard only has stereo inputs; I would get one more 57, and be done with it.
 
I'd love to try a pair of B1's on overhead. I've used one NT2 and that sounded beautiful. I'd imagine even one B1 overhead (or similar LDC) and a kick mic would be just fine if you've got two channels of inputs. If you can get more (or want to mix from the mixer down to stereo), with 500 bucks I'd get two of the B1's (you can always use them later), a D112 or similar kick mic, use your SM57 on the snare, and either use the remainder on cables/mic stands or a better/more input sound card. Or a better preamp (if your mixer is noisy or REAL bad).

That's my advice on the ghetto studio, I've been there man, and I'm still struggling to get out :)

- Jarick
 
Thanks for the advice man, is there a certain coundcard that you would suggest to use that would go good with the setup that has been suggested. again, thanks for the help.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Bass DI mentioned above has issues- namely, you can't hear the bass when you play, which requires a headphone amp and headphones.
Click to expand...

Many DIs have a mic out and an instrument out, so you can monitor through the amp. Or the bass amp might have a line out.
 
Honestly, I've gotten fine results from a single dynamic mic placed between and over the toms, pointed about 45 degrees down. It's in mono and it doesn't allow for much control, but it sounds reasonably clear and "live," there's even a passable amount of kick. You can of course stick a second mic on the kick as well.

And we're not even talking a 57 and a dedicated kick mic either, just a pair of generic handheld vocal type mics, like those Samsons you buy in a 3-pack at Sam Ash.

cheers

Billy S.
 
ok, thanks to everybody for the help, but I have one more question about something that came up, if I can get a pair of AKG C 1000S condenser mics for relatively cheap (about 100) would that be advisable? Thanks again to everybody for the help.
 
Well, what I would probably do is:

ONE LD condenser for a drum overhead. If you want two, fine, buy I don't see any reason to bother with it. It just adds phase messiness.
57 for the snare.
And a kick mic. I like the Beta 52, but it may well be outside of your budget. A 57 will do in a crunch.


Guitars get 57's.


DI the bass.


If you are doing a live to two thing, with limited isolation (which is what it sounds like), then a 58 would be fine for vocals.


And make sure you spend some time getting the mic placement right.


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
awesome, thanks for everybody's help, is there any special spot to place the overheads, and do you suggest recording the kick with the cover on or off, we are sorta emo, screamo punk, not too heavy but not soft. thanks again.
 
Promkingdrummer said:
ok, thanks to everybody for the help, but I have one more question about something that came up, if I can get a pair of AKG C 1000S condenser mics for relatively cheap (about 100) would that be advisable? Thanks again to everybody for the help.
Click to expand...

I would get that pair for $100, then sell them on ebay for $200 - they go for even more than that on the german ebay site http://www.ebay.de ;)

I would look at getting a pair of MXL 990 mics for $120
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=159314

I like the ATM25 on kick
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41465&item=7329681977&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

With careful placement of those you should be able to get a drum recording you like.
 
All good advice in this thread.

I would point out that mics are only a part of the equation, and if you are recording through bottom-end preamps into an onboard sound card then you are not going to get great results. Better to see what bases can be covered acceptably with the budget you have. Get a pair of versatile mics (I would get SP B1s, but MXL 603s are also very versatile by all accounts) and a pair of half-decent preamps (M-Audio DMP-3 or Soundcraft M4 mixer perhaps) and an M-Audio Audiophile 2496. I'm stabbing in the dark here as I don't know USA prices.

Of course, if $500 is REALLY your mic budget only, then go with the suggestions already given!
 
whatever mics you get, all the ones mentioned here would be fine.

the main thing is to just be sure and have the tones you want BEFORE you start setting your mics. just spend time listening to the kit, moving your ears around finding sweet spots of the drums. then do your best to capture that sound. too many times i see people just throwing mics up and then trying to fix them in post production. it will save you countless hours of post work if you just get good tones FROM THE SOURCE.

recording's not rocket science. mics make a big difference, but ears are much more critical. :D
 
When I get a better soundcard, what all do I need to look for in purchasing one, are there a specific amount of inputs/outputs that I need, and do they need to be RCA jacks or 1/4" jacks, or does it matter. Thanks for all the help.
 
When doing one overhead, it depends on what it is. What I like is an omni LD, just in front of the drummers head, and as low as they are comfortable playing with. This is usually about 6-10 inches above their head, but I like it to be more like 3-6, depending on how much they move their head while playing.

If it is a cardioids LD, it needs to be at least 8-16 inches, if they keep their cymbals low. If the cymbals are higher, the mic needs to be higher. It does not need to be above the cymbals, but it does need to be at least even with the highest cymbal. From there, listen; see if it needs to go up or down. If your drummer is really good, record a take, have him (or her) listen back, and they can adjust their dynamics to "mix" themselves. That will give you the best sound. Beyond that, experiment, listen and work. That is what it is all about.

With two overheads (I rarely mix them in stereo, myself, but that is just me), the general rule of thumb is two stick lengths away from the snare drum, but again, higher cymbals will change this. Just keep them the same, or you will have phase issues. Unless of course the phase issues sound good, in which case, go for it.


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"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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