Question on Compressor Attack and Release times

bouldersoundguy said:
Tempo is definitely worth considering when setting release time.



I don't even know what this means. Most of my compressors, hardware and software, have several knobs, none of which are labelled "compressor". I've seen guitar pedals with a "compression" knob which sets the level going into the threshold.
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I was referring to the attack and release knobs. So, if the release knob is in the middle or at 50%, it would be a medium release.
 
Btyre2013 said:
you'll have to get the book to find out :D all part of the fun of learning
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Yeah, I found a post of his (old REP I think) and now remember the gist of it, just never got around to trying it- It's basically set everything extreme' and fast to make the actions obvious, back out in a particular order, with finding the hidden' groove' being forefront as the goal and benifit' (as opposed to placing the control in ways you might just think is cool' :D
I was going to give it a shot the other night, but dammned if I didn't get side tracked on how totally cool this (new to me) PSP MasterBus comp was working out on a vocal. I love side chain eq! And this comp, (as well as being sweet!) I was able to tame some poor mic tech/proximity problem with a boost on the low side. I'd never expected such a solution! Typically I'd have been in with MulltheBand, and/or eq and gain envelopes!

till next time... :)
 
Since all the parameters, including the audio you are compressing, affect how the attack and release are percieved, the only way to describe the attack and release times is fast, medium, and slow.

If I'm trying something that someone described, I just take it as general knob settings ( left, center, right) and tweak from there. The only way exact settings will ever be useful is if you are using the same compressor on the same source material.
 
I'm not really sure, but I think this question lacks an understanding of what a compressor does and why it is used. First, the signal, not the time, is key. A keyboard or piano has a very immediate attack, a rather sudden drop off of volume and then a very long sustain if the key is held down. A trombone's attack is smoother, the volume remains consistent and there is no sustain. Once the note stops it stops immediately. To that end, you want immediate (short) attack times on the piano to prevent the key strike from clipping and a slow release time to allow the sustain to last and sound natural. A trombone uses a slower attack to compensate for inconsistencies in a player. It would need a release time that permits a natural sound might use either a short or a long release time depending on how the note is played.Forget the numbers for now and just try to make the track sound natural. Sounds that decay over time can be made to last as long as possible as the compression keeps bringing up the volume as the note drops. Early compression prevents clipping and distortion in loud sounds like a snare or a trumpet. Don't try too hard. Compression can cause pumping on cymbals as the rise and fall of frequencies can make unnatural sounds. On vocals however, compression can permit head movement and emotion in the singer's performance while maintaining the smoothness of the volume. I hope this helps. So focus less on the times and more on the result. Good luck.
Rod Norman, engineer

JMac52 said:
I was reading an SOS Session Notes article by Mike Senior and he wrote in one instance (it happened to be a trombone) he used compression with a "medium" release time. I looked at the screen shot for the plug-in he used, and the release time was 400 msec. Now it might be my electrical engineering training, but to me 400 msec seems like a long time.

Since I've seen in other articles and books references to these relative range-type terms, I was wondering - is there a generally accepted definition for the ranges of short/fast, medium, long/slow for attack and release times?

I expect someone to answer "it depends on the source" and that's fine if it does, but wondering if there is a general across-the-board definition.

Thanks,

J
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Rod Norman said:
...you want immediate (short) attack times on the piano to prevent the key strike from clipping...
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How do you know what I want? Maybe letting the attack through sounds better.

I prevent clipping by setting levels properly, not with dynamics processing.

I agree with this

Rod Norman said:
Forget the numbers for now and just try to make the track sound natural.
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and this

Rod Norman said:
So focus less on the times and more on the result.
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Like a lot of things in the audio world, it's subjective. Some people may describe something 1 way and another may describe it another way. But as far as describing something as fast, medium, or slow.... That has to do with the tempo of the song.

You are probably better off not even using the terms "fast, medium, or slow" because what's fast to one isnt fast to another. In my opinion it's better to just say the value. (For example: 400 milliseconds).

Simple enough for everyone to understand. :)
 
Thanks all, this is very informative. Imagine a thread on HR that gives usable, quantitative information without bashing and BH responses!
Some great points: 1) Monitors (and their placement) and room acoustics will allow you to hear what's going on so you can make good adjustments to your sound.
2) The ear fertilizer that comes out of the compressor is based on what the compressor is fed.
3) Long and short (as suspected) are not real tangible or applicable terms. What is long or short to a french horn with arena style reverb is not the same to a dry flute. Long and short attack and decay can best be described (as stated earlier) as positions on their respective knobs.
Basically, the answer is - listen; make it sound like you want it to sound.
 
BroKen_H said:
Thanks all, this is very informative. Imagine a thread on HR that gives usable, quantitative information without bashing and BH responses!
Some great points: 1) Monitors (and their placement) and room acoustics will allow you to hear what's going on so you can make good adjustments to your sound.
2) The ear fertilizer that comes out of the compressor is based on what the compressor is fed.
3) Long and short (as suspected) are not real tangible or applicable terms. What is long or short to a french horn with arena style reverb is not the same to a dry flute. Long and short attack and decay can best be described (as stated earlier) as positions on their respective knobs.
Basically, the answer is - listen; make it sound like you want it to sound.
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Thanks BroKen for summing up this thread. As the OP I will say I appreciate all of the responses, and to the actual question - is there a generally accepted definition of fast, medium, slow? - the answer appears to be "No". Good to know, but a little disconcerting that experts who are writing for the learning benefit of their readers use terms that have no definition. But I suppose that problem isn't peculiar to the the field audio engineering.

J
 
BroKen_H said:
Thanks all, this is very informative. Imagine a thread on HR that gives usable, quantitative information without bashing and BH responses!
Click to expand...

Who peed in your Cheerios dood? Stop bitching and learn. Nice post BTW. Love the 'ear fertilizer' analogy. Quite poignant.
 
Sorry, wasn't trying to be bitchy. Just following a lot of the threads here lead to Barry's and the like. Some of the egos here get in the way of the information that I need. Thanks for the compliments, too. I love this board and I know that trolls will always exist, but every once in a while it gets old when half the threads you're trying to read get derailed for 4-10 pages. :thumbs up:
 
BTW, my post is based on what I learned. I see that it sounds matter of fact, but I was honestly just trying to sum up what I got from the information. And yes I was kinda proud of the 'ear fertilizer' thing.
 
JMac52 said:
Thanks BroKen for summing up this thread. As the OP I will say I appreciate all of the responses, and to the actual question - is there a generally accepted definition of fast, medium, slow? - the answer appears to be "No". Good to know, but a little disconcerting that experts who are writing for the learning benefit of their readers use terms that have no definition. But I suppose that problem isn't peculiar to the the field audio engineering.

J
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The reason there is no accepted definition for fast, medium, and slow is because it depends on the signal you are compressing and the tempo of the song it is part of. A fast attack for a violin at 98 bpm would be way too slow for a piano at 160bpm.

Since everything is relative to the situation, there cannot be a specific definition.
 
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