Question about effects on Yamaha mixers

[gene12586]

I own a Yamaha StagePas 600i PA system. The mixer for the system comes with four on board effects, all labeled as types of reverb (Hall, Room, Plate, and Echo). In my experience echo is typically is synonymous with delay, which would be good because I'd like both reverb and delay. The thing is: when I put on the echo effect, when I just say one word I'll hear the sound repeated like I would expect with delay, but when I sing an entire line, then I really don't hear any repeats - I still hear some sort of spacey reverb-like ambience, but I think whatever repeated sound is going on is getting lost in the ambience (and this happens no matter what I set the reverb time of the effect to) -- So this really doesn't sound like the delay I'm used to hearing (e.g., when I play my guitar through a delay effect pedal)... So I'm wondering if this "echo" on the StagePas is actually delay or something else... It's labeled as a type of reverb... So not sure what it is exactly... Moreover, I looked online at other Yamaha mixers which have more effects than the StagePas (for example, the Yamaha EMX5 or the Yamaha MG10XU), and these have separate effects called "Reverb", "Delay", and "Vocal echo". I also found this article on the Yamaha website: https://hub.yamaha.com/proaudio/livesound/tools-of-the-trade-using-reverb-and-delay-part-1/
The article mentions that the Yamaha MG06X mixer has 3 types of delays: short delay, long delay, and VO Echo, and it says that the VO Echo is intended for use on vocals (so I take it the VO stands for vocals). This leads me to believe that maybe the echo on my StagePas is this VO Echo... though my StagePas still calls it a type of reverb. If it is the VO Echo delay, maybe this is the only type of delay intended for vocals. But I would really like more of a true delay sound... Here's an example of the type of delay on vocals I'm trying to get (for example if you watch from 1:09-1:16 you can clearly hear the word "anybody" repeating after he sings it the first time):


So, for anyone who has used a Yamaha mixer with these different delay vs echo vs reverb effects, does anyone know if the echo on my StagePas and other Yamaha mixers is actually delay or something else?... and regardless, which is the type of delay I'm looking for?

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Papanate]

So, for anyone who has used a Yamaha mixer with these different delay vs echo vs reverb effects, does anyone know if the echo on my StagePas and other Yamaha mixers is actually delay or something else?... and regardless, which is the type of delay I'm looking for?

It is written on the Effects on the mixer what the parameters are - so in your case if you wanted more repeats you would use #12 Delay - and then adjust the Parameter Knob to increase the repeats - in terms of the video the singer is using a Chamber Reverb with a Delay (I don’t know if they are the same unit or two different units) to achieve the overall sound - using an external processor is fine - something like the Zoom V3 Vocal Processor gives you the Delay and Reverb options - along with others like Harmony, Pitch Correction etc… - It depends on your Techincal Abilities and the kind of sound you want.

 

[gene12586]

Thanks, very helpful.
I know very little about vocal processors. Are you saying that the processor you suggested will have better quality effects than the Yamaha mixers (e.g., the hall reverb on the Yamaha will be worse quality than the hall reverb on the vocal processor)?... or are you saying that the vocal processor is good to have because it gives more effect options than the Yamaha mixers (e.g., more types of reverb, like chamber reverb)? Or both?
Your point about whether the reverb and delay are on the same unit or not gets me thinking about whether I could even simultaneously have both reverb and delay on at the same time one of the Yamaha mixers. I'll have to look into it, but if you happen to know please let me know.
Also, I know that one could also with the right cables run vocals through guitar pedals, though I've never tried it cuz frankly doing that makes me a bit nervous cuz my guitar pedals are my pride and joy... And one figures that the effects won't sound as good for vocals as they would on a mixer (or on one of the vocal processors you mentioned). What are your thoughts on vocals through guitar pedals vs. effects on mixer vs. vocal processor?
Sorry for so many questions.

 

[Papanate]

Thanks, very helpful.
I know very little about vocal processors. Are you saying that the processor you suggested will have better quality effects than the Yamaha mixers (e.g., the hall reverb on the Yamaha will be worse quality than the hall reverb on the vocal processor)?... or are you saying that the vocal processor is good to have because it gives more effect options than the Yamaha mixers (e.g., more types of reverb, like chamber reverb)? Or both?

The Yamaha is pretty good - the Vocal Processor is better - it does more things and blends effects - which I think is what you are after.

Your point about whether the reverb and delay are on the same unit or not gets me thinking about whether I could even simultaneously have both reverb and delay on at the same time one of the Yamaha mixers. I'll have to look into it, but if you happen to know please let me know.

No - on the Yamaha Mixers you have an either/or type of situation.

Also, I know that one could also with the right cables run vocals through guitar pedals, though I've never tried it cuz frankly doing that makes me a bit nervous cuz my guitar pedals are my pride and joy... And one figures that the effects won't sound as good for vocals as they would on a mixer (or on one of the vocal processors you mentioned). What are your thoughts on vocals through guitar pedals vs. effects on mixer vs. vocal processor?
Sorry for so many questions.

It’s a sound - Vocal through Pedals - You have to try it and see what you think - Myself I don’t use pedals for Vocals - but I know lots of Lo Fi guys do.

 

[rob aylestone]

The whole fun of being a pioneer for those that came out with new sounds is experimentation. The reason we still use quarter inch jacks is so you can almost plug anything into anything. Often the precise order you connect the pedals is critical. Sometimes its because you are overdriving something that creates a great sound by accident. Guitar pedals hiss like mad, made worse by the gain mismatches, so plugging in some devices sound horrible, but you carry on experimenting. The only rule that worth remembering is that you never connect cables meant to go to passive loudspeakers into anything but speakers. Other than that, mismatches create hiss or distortion, not damage.