question about character mxl v67's add

C

clazymike

New member
After sifting through the archives, I udnerstand that the V67 is a strong microphone, but some people have commented that it adds some character, especially to vocals.

If I'm going to be recording a lot of multi-tiered vocal harmonies, will that eventually add up? I'm talking about 15-20 tracks of vocals on top of each other.

I'm not too worried about the character addition on a single track, but just if it will be harshly noticable once track number 18 or 19 is laid on top.

Thanks.
 
I've done layered vocals using the same mic like that and as long as the mic sounds good with the vocalist it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If anything, it helps the vocals sit together and blend in the mix.

All mics color the sound. If you have only one mic, you can change its "color" by changing its placement. If you find that you are getting some kind of strange sound characteristics with multilayered harmonies, just try singing some of them a little further from the mic and a little more off axis.

Good luck,
Chris
 
When I layer harmonies, I tend to prefer a dynamic. It's different for every voice, but mine tends to sound too, I don't know, "polished" I guess. What really accumulates is a buildup of the sheen and/or polish that condensers tend to have. Once all that gloss builds up, if forms kind of a sticky gell that you could probably use to hold your hair in place. I wind up puking all over the floor thinking: "God, I sound like a freakin' boy-band with all those clean, sweet, pop-sounding harmonies!" Yuk. :(
 
"I'm talking about 15-20 tracks of vocals on top of each other."

15-20 tracks of VOCALS??? Say whaaaa??? Ö You might need high boots to wallow through the "vocal mud" that most likely will be created. Could you tell me what kind of musical presentation requires THAT many vocals.... at one time.? I am curious. Thanks ----ROB
 
Another good point. I like my v67 a lot, but it's not the mic I'm going to grab if I'm doing 100 layers of vocal. :)

I can imagine a lot of glossy goop at the top, and too much mud in the bottom. Don't get me wrong, on a solo voice, it's great and I get good use out of it. But I'd actually think a 57 would work better for that kind of application. Very straight-forward, unpretentious, and with a natural bass rolloff.
 
"But I'd actually think a 57 would work better for that kind of application"

Hey there Chess. It's the "application" of THAT many voices AT ONCE that has me bamboozled. I never HEARD of more than 8-10 part harmonies before. (unless I have been under a rock).
 
you may wanna get with Voxvendor (Mutt Jr.) for lessons on layering vocals.....
 
Are you guys kidding?!

Layered vocal harmonies kick butt!! VOXVENDOR's stuff is a pretty good example. I use them frequently- my gosh! They add SOOOOOO much depth and power to certain sections of a song.

I'll typically NOT double the lead when I am doing layered vocals. I just leave one lead floating over the top of a wide sea of harmonies.

I'll typically do 6-8 (sometimes more) harmonies BUT they are stereo- 2 mid harmonies panned 35% left and right, 2 high harmonies panned 50% left and right, and 2 low harmonies panned 75% left and right- for example. All pretty low in volume. So low in volume, in fact, that there can be some pretty bad takes that still sound pretty good mixed in with the rest. Its like creating a wide stereo bed of harmonies for the lead to lay in.

They are generally so low in volume that it almost doesn't matter what mic you use (within reason)- its the combined effect of many voices in stereo that gives it its power. They typically are NOT "in your face" voices.

If you want to hear my lame attempts at layered harmies- check out the tunes "Mute", "Fallen Angel", or "The Dawn" at chrisshaeffer.iuma.com. They all have layered vocals during the chorus or some other obvious section. Its a mixing challenge, to be sure, but man does it add spice to sections of a song that need spice.

Take care,
Chris
 
No one's arguing with you there, Chris.

We're just debating about what's the best way to go about doing it. It certainly presents some challenges. Your suggestions are good.

Sound Diag, I'm sure you've heard stuff from Queen or Yes, haven't you? They both used to go for the all-out assault on the harmonies and double-tracking.
 
Thanks Chess for bringing up Queen.I was told, historically, that the Bohemian Rhapsody session was the first time two 24 track machines were synced together in order to have enough room to do the harmony voci.And yet there is no mud in the vocal mix!Is it because the same guys were retracked over and over?As in how George Martin had whoever sang lead on Beatle tunes do his own harmony parts.Or a mystery EQ technique perhaps that "thins" each track so that the sum does not overpower the mix?The guitar parts on Def Leopard records are more examples of multiple takes blending nicely.
My guess on the Queen vocal stuff is that they rolled off the bass below 100Hz (about G3 or the bottom of a baritone's range) and didn't do any presence boosting that could get screechy in sum.Anybody know what mics they used?The lower mids are just great.Listen also to Joni Mitchell's great multiple vocal overdubs on that record she made with Tom Scott in the 70s.I don't remember the title,but one of the cuts was "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns".Was it Ladies Of The Canyon?
Chris
How do you use reverb to spead out the parts?I was in choir when I was a church-going boy and they always put the guys behind the girls.Do you push the deeper parts further back into the distance to increase a sense of separation?
Tom
 
When I was in choire, they always stuck the people who could actually sing (somewhat) in tune in the back, regardless of whether they were guys or girls. :)
 
Oh, I guess I forgot to mention the application for this. Yeah, so I'm in this acappella group at school here. That's where the 15-20 layers of vocals come in.

So no instruments, just lots and lots of vocals. Now, this is like pop acappella--we cover rock and pop songs, so a group of say 5 voices will be the guitar section, 3 will be bass, so I can EQ them as instruments seperately to help reduce the mud.

What I was thinking is if the v67 adds a very, very slight amount of character, that might not be too bad cause it could help with the blend. However, if it starts to add gloss as you said, that might be not so good.

We've already recorded half our album with an AKG 4000B and it sounds fine. The only thing we ran into was if we were layering the same person a bunch of times, things got a little phasey.

This is a sample of what kind of stuff we do. (This isn't us.)
(700k)

So basically it's just how much "gloss" the v67 will add is the question.

Thanks for all the responses so far.
 
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