Protools 003 or Mackie Onyx 1640i for recording and teaching?

M

mandrum

New member
Which of these setups would be best for the dual purpose of A, Quality sound recording and, B, Teaching students about recording and engineering. I believe both methods are used within pro studios, however, which method would give students the most insight. I believe both systems are pro tools and cubase compatible, so there does not seem to be an issue with software, however I would have thought the quality of recording would be to a very similar standard from both and that the Mackie set up would give students knowledge of in the box recording and experience of using a proper analogue style mixer. Can anyone clarify that I am correct in saying this, or would the digidesign 003 setup come with added benefits which I have not yet highlighted. Many Thanks.
 
I am a student myself and I own the 003 Factory Rack.

To be honest it was very easy to pick up even with limited prior knowledge of ProTools and it has been really useful for me. I don't know a lot about the other hardware you mentioned but I have had no worries with the quality of the recording, I have plenty of inputs for recording a large drum kit and it was easy to set up even for a novice.

Just thought I would give you my perspective on the 003.
 
For being roughly the same price, you get 16 mic pre's and 16x16 firewire interface. 6 aux's means you can send every musician their own mix.. I know the rack003 gives you 4 pres and 4 line-in's, and IDK what the routing capabilities are. You're limited to 4 mics tho unless you get some outboard pre's, you might want more inputs to mis up a drumkit or a full band or whatever.

It's HUGELY more flexible, and you can use it with any daw you want. Cubase, reaper, logic, garage band, anything. Except protools of course... I hate that protools and digi isolate themselves from the rest of the world, and that their hardware costs so much for what you get, I'm definitely not a PT fan..

Plus you get a nice 16x4 mixer for live use if you should need one.
 
Thanks guys. Dreads, the idea of using it as a teaching tool is to use the system to teach students the many areas of recording and production, so I dont suppose it matters how simple it is to grasp, it's more from the point of how much the students will learn through using either system. Would they learn more or as much from learning through the 003 system, or would they learn more from the onyx system. And Superstar, are you saying the Onyx is a better quality set-up and more value for money?
 
1. I think most of the DAW's have comparable learnig curves, ie Cubase isn't really any more or less difficult to learn than PT or Reaper, etc.. They all do pretty much the same stuff.

2. Mackie pre's aren't considered top of the line but they aren't bad.. I'm not sure how rack003 pre's rate. They're prolly a little better than the mackie's, but they're not up there with grace, avalon, otherwise a rack003 would cost double or more. So if they're nothing great, then for the same $$, of course I'd rather have 16 of em, and 16 channel I/O, and the routing options, the aux's, etc. IMO the slightly better pre's dont make up for giving you 1/2 the input channels (and 1/4 the pre's). Sometimes you need a lot more than 4 pre's..
 
Thanks Suprstar, Yeah, the reason I am asking all this is because I want to see if I am right in what I feel, which is that the Mackie would be the best option. Not only better value, i.e. More money spare for other gear, but students are going to learn more about mixing out the box, in what Mackie describe as , a mixer with an analogue feel. Surely all this means students will learn more, the sound quality is about the same and its cheaper. Sounds win, win, win to me, however my local goverment is choosing to go the 003 route and after suggesting in my humble opinion, that the onyxi mackie with pro tools m powered and cubase 5 add a good computer, a pair of Adam A7 speakers for the basic set up. an akg large diagphragm vocal mic a focusright pre a really nice outboard compresser and possibly reverb, plus the hordes of in the box effects you get from cubase and m powered means a pretty good set up, lots of bang for buck lots of learning? Why would they choose m audio 003 when you can get a real mixer easy with firewire as you say all the pres, a disputable down grade in sound quality but from the money that would be saved in not buying a profire 16 in out as well, you can have an additional mic pre for colouring vocals etc. I really believe, I could be wrong because I don't know enough, that learning mixing on a real mixer, not a control centre, with outboard as well as in board effects, as well as added mic pre with a different colour well much more is going to be learned and as I feel with arguably better results? Am I missing the point? Is this protools 003 setup far superior? Are all recording studios using these controllers rather than mixers??
 
Protools is the 'industry standard' (puke..) And Microsoft is industry standard too, but that doesn't mean it's the best. If you make a project with PT LE you can certainly take it to any studio and they can import all the settings and plugins etc. But it's not the same PT they use in the studios - the Rack003 comes with protools LE which is a stripped down bare bones limited capability etc.. (cubase makes an LE version too, which comes free with a lot of interfaces) The big pro studios have FAR more advanced stuff than a rack full of 003's:

promusic-ov_50330.jpg


etc.. If there's a point to be missed, then I'm missing it too....
 
Being an owner of a Mackie 1640 (old version), I would say go the Mackie route. The new 1640i will do Protools (M-Powered version). Whats nice about the mixer route is you have tons of other options to use and to teach. I use mine (like mentioned) to supply 6 independant headphone mixes (via aux sends). Plus like mentioned you get 16 descent preamps. Plus there is tape ins and outs, sends, returns, perkins eq's (which are quite good), monitor control, the ability to return 16 channels from the DAW back to the analog mixer and mix it down and more shit than I know what to do with. Ive been thinking of upgrading to the new "i" series. In my eyes there is alot more to do with the Mackie :drunk:
 
Thanks again guys. I am sorry to drive on with this issue, however I want to make sure before anything else is done that I am not missing something about the 003 option. Here are another 7 random points, if anyone has any experience or opinions, thanks in advance!!

1, I have read just now that the protools le could be a bit better than m powered as m powered is not set up for output +4db.
2, The pres are a little better and that the
3, di convertion is better in that word clock is an option. As I dont know enough could I call again on more experienced members of the site to share a little more knowledge. Does all this mean that
4, 003 could produce convinsingly superior recordings?

Also,
5, which would be sturdier, longer lasting or more easily maintained, or could I put it, cheaper to fix/replace if broken. I know with the 003 control version the area are looking at the profire 16 in out to work along side, could it be they are trying to break down the system into more pieces, so that if one goes wrong, i.e. the interface, then it can be replaced without having to replace a full mixer?
6, Are there many more pro quality plug ins in le than in m powered.
7, Can you take an m-powered mix to a protools hd/pro studio.

Just some more queeries to ask opinions and experience of in this department. Any thought on any of the above points would be really most welcome,Thanks much, Andy.
 
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