Producing top and bottom panning??

M

mtardif

New member
No idea how to do this, but was just curious because I'd like to work it in some of my mixes. I've been sitting here at work listening to this band out of NYC called Tammany Hall. They've recorded one of their albums with mostly acoustic guitars and vocals.

It's got some really nice left and right movements, but there are times that the solo guitar sits hard right, but also way at the bottom (ie in my headphones, it sounds like it's coming out of my earlobe!). There are also plenty of places where the sound seems to come from the top both left and right.

Is this something that can be achieved during mixing, or is that a recording technique? and how?

-Thanks
Marcus
 
It's obviously down to psychoacoustics, you're mind perceives the sound as being above or below etc. I've noticed this effect on recordings myself but I have no idea how it is achieved.
 
Psychoacoustics :) Never heard that term before but the concept makes sense. I need to figure out a way to use that word in a sentence everyday.

Does anyone think maybe it could be done with specific mic positioning?
 
If you mike an instrument with a stereo pair in a room with hard reflective surfaces you can get a pretty realistic image of where in the room the instrument is.
 
Imposible.
Since we have only two (horizontal) ears and listen through two (stereo) speakers.

What we do have is

1. Stereo - left and right
2. Room size - front to back. Using room or reverb type effects.
3. Frequency responce. But that can be front right left back.

Posible.

Make a 4 channel mix. Use 4 speakers to play back. Two for stereo and the other two for up and down.
But who's going to play it back that way anyway.

Ive had the illusion of wider stereo. Just listen to stereo tv and sometimes the sound seems to come from a much wider stereo field than the distance your speakers are actually apart.

I personally think anything more than stereo is overkill for music. 5.1 is a neat idea for home theatre but I still prefer stereo for that too.
Whenever I hear 5.1 at someones place while watching a movie I go hey that sounds cool, hang on i was watching a movie, how distracting. You have to get use to it just to be able to forget about it and get on with enjoying the movie. But I can see how the HI FI geeks go for it. To them more is more.
I guess if instead of setting up you 5.1 home theatre speakers on the floor you set them up on the wall you might get up and down. But technically speaking anything more than stereo, ie two speakers for two ears requires that your head be moving around slightly to actually get to percieve the direction its coming from.

Scott
www.feel-rock.com
 
Actually it is possible. My Roland 1680s VS COSM rom has the effect. It is basically a complicated algorithm that lets you specify the azimuth and elevation.

Do a search for RSS (aka Roland Sound System)

Its hardly a new technique.
 
I think it was done with two things.

I think that was achieved with both stereo micing and possibly a surround set up will in the mixing stage.

sonicpaint
 
I'd definately have to hear it to believe it. I mean it is technically imposible, but could be artificially "simulated" I guess. But since I have no use for it in music, I'll probly never bother. I see no point in having sounds come from top to bottom. But with movies, well thats a different medium all together.
 
Scott Tansley said:
I mean it is technically imposible, but could be artificially "simulated" I guess.
...I see no point in having sounds come from top to bottom. But with movies, well thats a different medium all together.
Click to expand...

Why not. When pan thins at all angles of left to right to get drums tracks how they are in real life.....well a kick drum is on the floor, and cymbals are higher up.....

And it is technically possible. Stranger things have happened....

People can throw their voice..........

...and besides, its only a frequency.
 
the way i see it :

panning controls the left - right position

echo and volume the distance the sound appears to be at

EQ lets you position the sound 'top' or 'bottom'


most fancy positioning effects use some kind of smart combination of these (basic) effects
 
wetteke said:
the way i see it :

panning controls the left - right position

echo and volume the distance the sound appears to be at

EQ lets you position the sound 'top' or 'bottom'


most fancy positioning effects use some kind of smart combination of these (basic) effects
Click to expand...

Not quite.
 
Hey Outlaws I went to your website and theres no songs to download. Got anything for us to hear on our mp3 forum. You'll get some good feedback on whats good and bad with your stuff there too. Whats your guitar setup btw.
 
Originally posted by wetteke
the way i see it :

panning controls the left - right position

echo and volume the distance the sound appears to be at

EQ lets you position the sound 'top' or 'bottom'


most fancy positioning effects use some kind of smart combination of these (basic) effects
_____________________________________

I think I tend to agree more with wetteke. And wetteke, your eq for top and bottom is the only real top and bottom that we hear from a mix. Since we feel more bass than trebble and most of the trebble is recieved by ear only....
like..
a. bass hits the whole body. Centered in the middle of our body. Which makes it seem to come from lower down.
b. Trebble is recieved through ears only. Higher up on the body.

Fancy up and down algorithms seem a bit silly.
 
I forget what the device is called, but it's a replica of a human head with a microphone inside and it imitates the way we hear sounds coming from different directions (up, down, left, right, in front of us, behind us, etc...). So since it was recorded with the same reflections that our ears would pick up if we were actually standing in the room, it will sound as though it's coming from that direction.

It could be that this device was used to get those sounds... But just using normal EQ is not really going to give the sense of "top or bottom" sounds.

-tkr
 
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