I'm looking at investing in a quality mic-pre and have searched through some previous posts on the subject here at HR. I've looked at sites that offer "pro" caliber equipment (Brent Averill, Mercenary, etc.) and have also come across Mindprints latest offering the DTC I'll admit the only mic-pre I actually have experience using is Mindprint's Envoice (which seems to do a really fine job). Since I'm running a "home" set up (Sonar, Aardvark Q10) how much could I expect from a "pro" quality mic-pre? I'd like to achieve tracks with more "fatness", warmth and clarity. Will Neve, Calrec or Brent Averill equipment far outdistance the performance of a unit like the DTC? I know the DTC is a relatively new unit and has quite a few more features than a basic mic-pre but the price range is comparable with the "top of the line" mic-pre's. I've included the link to the DTC above so that folks might have a look at the unit and technical information. I was only able to find one review on the product and that was printed in Swedish or Dutch or something which I couldn't read. Any help or insight is appreciated...
"Pro" mic-pre's vs. Mindprint DTC?
- Thread starter MAC2
- Start date
Michael Jones
New member
Looks have nothing to do with quality. Buy something because you like the way it sounds, not because you like the way it looks.
I have a pair of Brent Averill's 35102's from Audix. I'm not sure if he's offering these anymore, but they're very similar to the Calrec's he does offer.
A quality mic pre is an essential piece of gear. Anything from Brent Averill is going to be golden! Hard to go wrong there.
I have a pair of Brent Averill's 35102's from Audix. I'm not sure if he's offering these anymore, but they're very similar to the Calrec's he does offer.
A quality mic pre is an essential piece of gear. Anything from Brent Averill is going to be golden! Hard to go wrong there.
Keith:....lol.....yeah, it does look pretty cool but I'm trying to find out if it works as good as it looks! I'm also hoping someone can explain why the solid state pres (Neve, Brent Averill, Calrec, etc.) sound so good vs. a tube pre (Mindprint, ART, Vipre, etc.)?....or is it just a matter of taste?
Michael: Thanks for your input! I've noticed that recordings (yours included!) made using "top of the line" mic pres sound so thick, warm and natural...real....words usually associated with a "tube" sound....but (as far as I can tell) Brent Averill units don't have any tubes. How are these units accomplishing that sound? As far as the DTC goes it appears to have both capabilities in one unit and also a kind of "Swiss army knife" range of application. Does that hold true with the solid state mic pres?
Michael: Thanks for your input! I've noticed that recordings (yours included!) made using "top of the line" mic pres sound so thick, warm and natural...real....words usually associated with a "tube" sound....but (as far as I can tell) Brent Averill units don't have any tubes. How are these units accomplishing that sound? As far as the DTC goes it appears to have both capabilities in one unit and also a kind of "Swiss army knife" range of application. Does that hold true with the solid state mic pres?
I'm under the impression that the only tube element to this thing is in the compressor.
The preamps appear to be solid state.
Keep in mind, here, that what you're looking at with the DTC is an "all-in-one" channel; preamp, EQ, Tube compressor.
The Neve clones you mentioned are just mic pres (if I'm not mistaken), so they're designed to do one thing very well.
As far as tubes vs. solid state goes, I doubt anyone would accuse a Neve of not sounding fat, warm, clear, etc. The kinds of things some people mistakenly believe is only achieveable through tube gear.
That said, my feelings on mindprint gear is probably going to be a great deal different than what most will tell you.
I happen to think it's all great stuff. They seem to do compression really well, and I rather like their practice of higher impedence values at the input of their preamps. In all honesty, it really does help open up the high end of a dynamic mic in a noticeable way. At least to my ears.
What it really comes down to who you'll be working with, IMHO. If you're working with people who know their shit, they'll be tickled / impressed to know you have an Averill. If you work with less knowlegeable folks, all they'll have to do is take one look at that big, burgondy, shiny neon-studded thing with the silver knobs and the brain logo and they will think you own the world's greatest piece of recording equipment ever made.
The preamps appear to be solid state.
Keep in mind, here, that what you're looking at with the DTC is an "all-in-one" channel; preamp, EQ, Tube compressor.
The Neve clones you mentioned are just mic pres (if I'm not mistaken), so they're designed to do one thing very well.
As far as tubes vs. solid state goes, I doubt anyone would accuse a Neve of not sounding fat, warm, clear, etc. The kinds of things some people mistakenly believe is only achieveable through tube gear.
That said, my feelings on mindprint gear is probably going to be a great deal different than what most will tell you.
I happen to think it's all great stuff. They seem to do compression really well, and I rather like their practice of higher impedence values at the input of their preamps. In all honesty, it really does help open up the high end of a dynamic mic in a noticeable way. At least to my ears.What it really comes down to who you'll be working with, IMHO. If you're working with people who know their shit, they'll be tickled / impressed to know you have an Averill. If you work with less knowlegeable folks, all they'll have to do is take one look at that big, burgondy, shiny neon-studded thing with the silver knobs and the brain logo and they will think you own the world's greatest piece of recording equipment ever made.
dobro
Well-known member
MAC2 - I've got experience with the Envoice as well. The DTC looks like it has an even better sound. That sounds rather wonderful to my mind. Mindprint does a *lot* of serious boasting about that unit too, especially the EQ section. FOUR fully parametric bands. Damn...
Okay, I haven't heard it or any of the pro pres you mention. But it seems to me that the DTC must be at least *close* to pro sound, plus there's all that control of the signal on the way in. My guess is it's as good as it gets before you go the whole banana and get pro preamps, compressors and EQ units. Well, I don't have that much money.
However, having seen the DTC, I now have a serious case of gear lust. Thanks for the link.
Mindprint does a *lot* of serious boasting about that unit too, especially the EQ section. FOUR fully parametric bands. Damn...Okay, I haven't heard it or any of the pro pres you mention. But it seems to me that the DTC must be at least *close* to pro sound, plus there's all that control of the signal on the way in. My guess is it's as good as it gets before you go the whole banana and get pro preamps, compressors and EQ units. Well, I don't have that much money.
However, having seen the DTC, I now have a serious case of gear lust.
Thanks for the link.Scriabin said:
Yup, you can find my mic list right here.
My board right here. My recording medium right here. My Ultra-High-tech-monitoring system . . . and just about everything else in my spiffy arsenal here.
He he. Just messin' with ya. Thanks for reminding me to update my website. I'll post it on there very soon. In the meantime, here's a cliffnotes rundown:*Mics: Own: Shure SM7, Blue Dragonfly, CAD M177, Marshall mxl2003, Oktava mc012s, Marshall mxl603s, sm57s, ATM25, Behringer ecm8000. access to: AT 4033, AKG 414, Shure sm91.
*Pres: Own: Custom-modded Tube Preamp w/ high-quality components compliments of none other than the great NW Soundman
, Joemeek VC6Q, Mindprint DI Port, DMP3, ART TubeMP. access to: Soundcraft Spirit, Mackie, DBX586.*Effects: Own: Everything Waves. access to: TC Verbs, Lexicom, etc. Compressors: access to dbx 160SL.
* Amps access to: JCM, Marshall cabs, Mesa Dual Rectifiers, Vox, Fender Twin, etc.
Everything tracked to a Delta 1010 / to 2 Ghz AMD athlon bla bla bla (you can probably tell I'm not computer savvy) whatever
using CoolEdit Pro.
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Michael Jones
New member
MAC2 said:....but (as far as I can tell) Brent Averill units don't have any tubes. How are these units accomplishing that sound?
High quality components, Class A, Discrete Amplifiers, Transformers in isolation. I guess. Either that or its magic!
As far as the DTC goes it appears to have both capabilities in one unit and also a kind of "Swiss army knife" range of application. Does that hold true with the solid state mic pres?
The ones I mentioned are soley mic pres, but some do have parametric EQ and frequency filters to help "shape" the sound.
Hi Dobro,....and your welcome Your reply has helped me frame the question better: Is the DTC a "pro" level unit comparable to Averill and the rest?...if so, then with all the extras it would appear to be a bargain. I may e-mail Mindprint and see what they say....but I was hoping to find an independent opinion as well. Put it this way, this is where I'm at now with the equipment available to me:"Jackson/Daly's Magic Ocean"
That was done with the Mindprint. Would the Averill or others be an improvement?
Keith: Checked out your site some more....some nice work there!
Your reply has helped me frame the question better: Is the DTC a "pro" level unit comparable to Averill and the rest?...if so, then with all the extras it would appear to be a bargain. I may e-mail Mindprint and see what they say....but I was hoping to find an independent opinion as well. Put it this way, this is where I'm at now with the equipment available to me:"Jackson/Daly's Magic Ocean" That was done with the Mindprint. Would the Averill or others be an improvement?
Keith: Checked out your site some more....some nice work there!
MAC2 said:
Thanks! I like your stuff a lot as well. If such a thing as a professional pre even exists, I would say a Brent Averill or a Great River Neve clone would certainly qualify. Most pros will probably tell you that a professional-level pre would start out with something like a Sytek, working it's way up to the likes of the Grace Design and Earthworks 101 . . . then Great River, Cranesong, the Averills, Focusrite Reds, etc. etc.
The interesting thing is you've picked an odd company and product (in Mindprint) to ask that question about. First off, it's a new product that very few people have any experience with. Not to mention that it's one of those "in-betweeners" ; No one with an Averill would even consider anything by Mindprint (so that might tell you something there), while those who would probably couldn't afford a Neve, so it would be difficult to get a reliable word on it.
So I guess the question would be how well it compares to a Sytek, as I think that is often regarded as the entry/gateway to what people consider professional . But what is professional, these days, anyway? Does it even exist anymore, or is it a lot of BS we've been fed in order to convice us we need to part with more $$ ?
You'll hear a much more immediate improvement with better mics, imho. It's certainly a topic of much debate (ie - digital vs. analog or tubes vs solid state, etc. ) with, unfortunately, no clear-cut right and wrong answers.chessrock said:
Funny you should say that. As you know Chess, I have a MindPrint DI Port -- it's basically my "clean" pre as well as a pretty good AD/DA converter.
But, I also own a single-channel Class-A Neve racked by Dan Alexander.
It's my color pre.It could mean I'm an anomaly, perhaps very wise in choosing gear. Or perhaps it means I'm totally lame.
Sorry, I have no comment on DTC since I've never heard it ... people rave about the Envoice, which I guess is MindPrint's "coloring" pre that we're most familiar with (cuz it's been out a while). I can only tell you the DI port does a good job at the clean thing from what I can tell ...
I can't tell if your serious or not Chess, so I'll answer anyway. (damn, I'm gullible! )
Seriously, I don't have any better "clean" pres to compare the DI to ... but, you know, it's clean ... that is, it seems to stay out of the way. When I use it, that's what I want.
Now the Neve, c'mon, it sounds like a Neve ... that peculiar "clean yet fat and buttery" sound. No margarine there, nosirree. I haven't had a chance to record as much as I'd like since I got it ... WHY DOES THAT ALWAYS HAPPEN?!? But I got it used (umm, I guess all 1073/1066 Neves are kinda used, ain't they?) for $600. It just seemed like I had to buy it ...
)Seriously, I don't have any better "clean" pres to compare the DI to ... but, you know, it's clean ... that is, it seems to stay out of the way. When I use it, that's what I want.
Now the Neve, c'mon, it sounds like a Neve ... that peculiar "clean yet fat and buttery" sound. No margarine there, nosirree. I haven't had a chance to record as much as I'd like since I got it ... WHY DOES THAT ALWAYS HAPPEN?!? But I got it used (umm, I guess all 1073/1066 Neves are kinda used, ain't they?) for $600. It just seemed like I had to buy it ...
Michael Jones
New member
Me either!chessrock said:
$600 ? ? ! ! I don't like you anymore, Geekgirl.
( )
sonusman
Banned
Boy, I don't know. I got to play around with a Averill Neve pre this last summer. On some things, it was just the ticket. On others, the ART Pro MP sounded MUCH better.
That is the way it goes with preamps. They all have a different character with them. EVERY ONE OF THEM imparts a certain type of sonic signature to the same source that makes it sound at least somewhat different. But you know, it is really the mic, and the way it weights to preamp that starts making a big difference. While a 4033 through a ART MP sounds VERY good to my ears, that same 4033 through a Focusrite Red sounds aweful! To a ORAM MWS, not too bad if you trim a little 7KHz with the EQ Magic.
I have done some pretty snazzy recordings using Mackie pre's. Not everything on the recording had the sonic character I wanted, but nothing was horrible either. I hate Mackie pre's!
Don't get too bent about comparing preamp's. It is mostly a windy, "mine is the best", and in the end, futile thing to do. You can spend $1500 on a single channel pre, and on some stuff it will sound great, on others, not so good. Your little $100 pre can sound great on some things, and not so good on others.
Get a pre to add some more color to the pallette. But don't expect it to make bad mic decisions and bad mic position decisions sound better. They won't. In the end, having a good mic selection and making the right choice of mic and position is going to make FAR more difference in your recordings than the difference between a Neve and a TLAudio (HHB now...).
Peace.
Ed
That is the way it goes with preamps. They all have a different character with them. EVERY ONE OF THEM imparts a certain type of sonic signature to the same source that makes it sound at least somewhat different. But you know, it is really the mic, and the way it weights to preamp that starts making a big difference. While a 4033 through a ART MP sounds VERY good to my ears, that same 4033 through a Focusrite Red sounds aweful! To a ORAM MWS, not too bad if you trim a little 7KHz with the EQ Magic.
I have done some pretty snazzy recordings using Mackie pre's. Not everything on the recording had the sonic character I wanted, but nothing was horrible either. I hate Mackie pre's!
Don't get too bent about comparing preamp's. It is mostly a windy, "mine is the best", and in the end, futile thing to do. You can spend $1500 on a single channel pre, and on some stuff it will sound great, on others, not so good. Your little $100 pre can sound great on some things, and not so good on others.
Get a pre to add some more color to the pallette. But don't expect it to make bad mic decisions and bad mic position decisions sound better. They won't. In the end, having a good mic selection and making the right choice of mic and position is going to make FAR more difference in your recordings than the difference between a Neve and a TLAudio (HHB now...).
Peace.
Ed
