Preamp purchases

S

StevenLindsey

New member
Well, I think I've about narrowed my preamp search down to these: RNP/RNC with the rack face and a Sytek MPX4a. Do you think these two ought to cover all that a one-man-band with drums can throw at it? I'm still about concerned about the noise level for the RNP. The FMR guy, Mr. McQuilken, said that it was noisier than some other amps. And, I'm rather loathe to get more wall warts. If I didn't need the DIs I'd just try the Sytek first since the amps are allegedly very quiet. But I need some DIs for bass and guitar. 'bout sick of the old Blue Tube. Think it's going up for sale. Any takers? Maybe not. What do ya think? Start with the RNP and then add the Sytek or should I just save up and get one really fine 2-4 channel rig like a John Hardy? Decisions, decisions. I know - I'm rambling. Any input to help clarify my thought process would be appreciated. I'm just about ready to start buying. Thanks!
 
buy them both and return or resell the one you dont like...

they are both supposed to be really great pres. you have done your homework...
 
The noise floor of the RNP is reputedly around -67 dB, per RAP posts. It's extremely unlikely this will be an issue with any of your recordings, even more if you're mixing in other instruments/vocals.

Chris
 
What type of music will you be recording? I haven't used the RNP but trust the reviews of a few people and they like it for DI'd bass. Try a sans amp in front of the RNP. I have used the Sy. I wouldn't by one for myself. I mainly record heavy stuff and I find the Sytek to be too clean for my tastes. I am also into pres that have output control so I can go straight to tape and still have a hot input on the mic pre. The Sytek is quiet and the JFET channels are nice.

List a few recordings that are somewhat representative of what sound you are after.

Kirk
 
RNP is not noisy. it may not pass a bunch of lab tests, but it sounds fine under normal recording conditions. wall wart sucks though.
 
When Mark says the RNP is noisey, it's like him saying a stock Porsche is slow. You have to know his reference point, and how high his expectations are to understand where he is coming from. The RNP is a fine preamp. Especially with most high output microphones today, you won't have any problems with noise.

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
 
Unless you spent a whole lot of money/time/effort building a room-within-a-room with no windows, floating floor and custom silenced HVAC, the ambient noise where you're recording is going to be way above the RNP's.

Scott
 
nwsoundman said:
What type of music will you be recording? I haven't used the RNP but trust the reviews of a few people and they like it for DI'd bass. Try a sans amp in front of the RNP. I have used the Sy. I wouldn't by one for myself. I mainly record heavy stuff and I find the Sytek to be too clean for my tastes. I am also into pres that have output control so I can go straight to tape and still have a hot input on the mic pre. The Sytek is quiet and the JFET channels are nice.

List a few recordings that are somewhat representative of what sound you are after.

Kirk
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies. Eeldip - I intend to keep both of them if they are good. I want 6 channels. My stuff ranges from just vocals and guitar ( quiet - the reason I wondered about the noise level for the RNP) to 3-4 guitars, bass, keys, 4-5 vocals, and drums. I realize the noise level isn't really a factor with the full band, but it's pretty critical with quiet recordings. My stuff is sorta like Neil Young, James Taylor, Cat Stevens.....you get the idea. Acoustic folk rock. I do some old hymns with guitar. And my room is not treated .. just a bedroom. I have mattresses against the wall and will put up some more blankets and things when I begin to record in earnest. So, the poster is right, the noise level is probably irrelevant for me. But I still want the best sounding amps that I can afford for my stuff. Think I'll start with the RNP/RNC.... looks pretty good. Thanks for the help all. The opinions really help my decision process.
 
i have an SM7 which is extremely low output mic to an RNP...the noise floor gets to round -60 to -50 db to get a decent level on the mic...i dont' think its been effecting my recordings too much cuz my vocals sound pretty clear...
 
I just got an RNP/RNC combo. It sounds very good.... clean, detailed. I think for the money, you can't go wrong. As a bass DI, it is not bad. Believe it or not, I have been running my bass through a Mesa/Boogie V-twin lately... with good tweaking it sounds very three dimensional and detailed and warm. The RNP is not as good as that, but definitely not bad.
 
Thanks Lotuscent. Maybe it will improve the recorded sound of the stinky old Peavy T20 bass I'm using. It's pretty nasty through a Blue Tube. It may be nasty through anything you could possibly use though. A better bass would most likely improve the sound more than a new pre. But it's all I've got right now and I need new pres for other stuff. Appreciate the review.
 
the cheapest presonus toob pre (lik $90, single channel, 1/3 rack space) makes a surprisingly good bass DI. i use a pink hondo bass with a neck a pickup from a broken p-bass (i think the pink adds a lot of good sound to the bass), anyway, even this piece of trash sounds pretty cool through the presonus. it's sorta an old country sounding bass, like older johnny cash albums.

i thought since we were talking a bit about bass DI i'd share that. the presonus toob pre actually sounds better as a bass DI than any of my other pres (RNP, DMP3, UA-610...)
 
willovercome said:
the presonus toob pre actually sounds better as a bass DI than any of my other pres (RNP, DMP3, UA-610...)
Click to expand...

Have you actually tried these with higher end basses? My ART is not bad for certain trashy sounds, but otherwise, pretty flat - it's hard to believe that the presonus is actually "better" than a UA-610, but then again, I haven't used either...
 
StevenLindsey said:
The FMR guy, Mr. McQuilken, said that it was noisier than some other amps. And, I'm rather loathe to get more wall warts.
Click to expand...

Fuck me.

You really need to understand 'geek humor' before you take shit like that seriously.

From the FMR Site:

WHAT SUCKS
Now I will violate a very important marketing rule by telling you what I think sucks about the RNP. Why? Because nothing is perfect and compromises always have to be made. By giving you some perspective on the RNP's shortcomings, at least you'll have some insights into the whys about my choices. Let your ears and application requirements be the ultimate guides (YMMV).

The RNP uses a wallwart. As I explain on our website for the RNC, the RNP also uses a wallwart to: (a) reduce internal noise induction, (b) to make the national/international regulatory compliance less costly, and, (c) to permit easy adaptation of the RNP to countries other than the U.S. The upside is that we've designed the RNP to use a range of wallwarts (see what's cool, above) instead of the pain-in-the-ass one used on the RNC.

The RNP is relatively noisy when evaluated by lab measurement. Many mic pres these days (including the really cheap ones) have very low noise floors (EINs of -127dB or better). The RNP's EIN of -120dB is obviously not as "good" as these others.
Click to expand...

Translation of geek humor... an EIN of -120db is fucking phenomenal. An EIN of -127 is better in lab terms... but in real life application, totally fucking meaningless.

If you'd like to see the RNP go for like $1,500+ then an internal power supply can be added. With adding an internal power supply comes getting "UL" approval; "CE" approval; "State of fucking Kalifornia"s okey dokey and a couple of other regulatory agencies. By using an 'already approved' wall wart thingy they avoid all those approval steps [though there are a couple of shortcuts here and there] a manufacturer could be looking at a couple hundred thousand dollars for the requisite approvals.

You tell me... you want it cheap? ...or do you want it with an internal power supply. It's gonna be the same fucking mic pre anyway you spell it.
 
Re: Re: Preamp purchases

Fletcher said:
Fuck me.

You really need to understand 'geek humor' before you take shit like that seriously.

From the FMR Site:



Translation of geek humor... an EIN of -120db is fucking phenomenal. An EIN of -127 is better in lab terms... but in real life application, totally fucking meaningless.

If you'd like to see the RNP go for like $1,500+ then an internal power supply can be added. With adding an internal power supply comes getting "UL" approval; "CE" approval; "State of fucking Kalifornia"s okey dokey and a couple of other regulatory agencies. By using an 'already approved' wall wart thingy they avoid all those approval steps [though there are a couple of shortcuts here and there] a manufacturer could be looking at a couple hundred thousand dollars for the requisite approvals.

You tell me... you want it cheap? ...or do you want it with an internal power supply. It's gonna be the same fucking mic pre anyway you spell it.
Click to expand...

Since a lot of us doing the shopping are relatively ignorant when it comes to "geek" talk, it would probably best be omitted in public arenas, at least in the area of reviews. It does influence the decision making process. When he tells me it's not as quiet as other amps and I'm looking for an amp that is as quiet as possible AND I'm willing to ultimately spend $1500-2000 for it, then I'm going to bypass it if I don't get the real story. If I were only considering the RNP then, of course, I would rather it be cheaper and have a wall wart. However, since there are other options within the budget constraints that have power supplies and have as good or better sound quality, the the RNP becomes a less desirable option. That's why I spend a lot of time reading all the options and opinions before I make the choice. And the preponderance of the evidence I've gathered about the RNP suggests that it is a worthwhile purchase......even with a wall wart. Thanks for your (rather blunt, nasty, surly ) information. :D I do appreciate it. I hope to order the RNP/RNC from you soon since you do have the package at a $15 discount. Yep, I'm cheap.
 
I say get either and get to recording. If you go the Sytek route, then get the jfet option on two of the channels.

Steve
www.mojopie.com

P.S. And here's a review of the Sytek and here's a review of the RNP
 
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The only thing really significant about the RNP's wallwart is the fact that it is inconvienant. A solid state pre without tubes dont need a buttload of power, expecially if op-amps are used.

But a tube pre is a much more in need of a capable power supply, I for one will never invest in one again without an internal power supply.
 
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