Preamp into Preamp?

M

machinetodd

New member
I read all the time that running a preamp into a preamp can damage your equipment. With that said I have a question that has been eating at me.

I have a Yamaha n12 which I use as my interface and I love everything about it, it has 8 mono pres on the first 8 channels and each has an XLR input as well as a TRS Line input and an insert.
I want to start adding tube preamp warmth(and color when its good) to just about everything.

Here is the question:
When connected to the line in are the pres still used, if not that answers everything, but if they are still in the chain then what is the safest way to do this, that is both safe for the n12 and will yield the best results?

I do not have any outboard pres yet, but I am in the market and the answers hear will determine what I buy.

Thanks in advance!
 
You can run a separate preamp into the TRS line in on the mixer without problem. You'll still want to keep your eye and ears on the levels; the eye to make sure you're not running anything too hot, and you ears to determine how to set the combination of output on the external pre and the input on the mixer in orger to get the best sound to your taste.

G.
 
I looked at the manual for that and didn't see any trs line input.

You want to use the stereo input jacks for that. They are expecting line level inputs.

or

you could use the effects return side of the inserts (i/o) (inserts past the pre and just before a/d conversion.

You are right you don't want to go pre to pre.
 
There are both Line Ins and Insert points on channels 1-8 and only line in on channels 9-12(two stereo channels 9-10 and 11-12)
 
machinetodd said:
There are both Line Ins and Insert points on channels 1-8
Click to expand...
The manual shows these as instrument level inputs, not line level. Can you put line level in them? Sure that's why they have the pads on them.

Do you want to? Not me.

Preamps are designed to operate within a certain gain range. When you operate them at unity gain ( which you most likely will when feeding it line level) many will become unstable and exhibit increased distortion or a tendancy to oscillate, thus the pad.

Also, when I spend big bucks on a pre why would I want to color it with this boards pre?

in orger to get the best sound to your taste? lol
 
I am actually curious about this as well. I currently have a M-Audio Profire 2626. This operates as my interface and my mic pre right now, however, if I were to introduce a seperate outboard pre (mic>outboard pre>profire2626) would this cause issues or damage equiptment? The 2626's back has eight mic inputs and eight 1/4" outputs. I am assuming if I introduced another pre, I am guessing I would connect my mic xlr to the outboard pre, then through xlr again to my profire 2626. This technically would put the signal through 2 pre's...

I guess summed up, is this bad, possible or before I can invest in outboard pre's do I need to get a new interface that does not have built in pres?
 
NYMorningstar said:
The manual shows these as instrument level inputs, not line level. Can you put line level in them? Sure that's why they have the pads on them.

Do you want to? Not me.

Preamps are designed to operate within a certain gain range. When you operate them at unity gain ( which you most likely will when feeding it line level) many will become unstable and exhibit increased distortion or a tendancy to oscillate, thus the pad.

Also, when I spend big bucks on a pre why would I want to color it with this boards pre?

in orger to get the best sound to your taste? lol
Click to expand...

Actually input 8 is the only input that can take in an instrument direct, the rest are line level
 
phriq said:
This technically would put the signal through 2 pre's...

I guess summed up, is this bad, possible or before I can invest in outboard pre's do I need to get a new interface that does not have built in pres?
Click to expand...
It would cause issues like distortion and sound coloration to the new pre that you get and you would have to use the pad on the 2626 because the 2626 has no line in inputs.

That aside it may be the sound you're lookin for but I'm not going to invest into a standalone pre and then run it through another pre and change it's flavor.

It's best to run a dedicated outboard pre directly to a line level input.

I doubt it would damage any equipment if you run the pre at nominal levels but it may shorten its lifespan.
 
machinetodd said:
Actually input 8 is the only input that can take in an instrument direct, the rest are line level
Click to expand...
From the manual, this is for channels 1-4 on the N8 and I think its channels 1-8 for the n12:

1 ANALOG INPUT jacks (monaural)
These monaural channel input jacks are used to connect
microphones or musical instruments. Each input channel
features two types of jacks (INPUT A and INPUT B).

You can also see that each of these have a pad on them too in case you need to use a line level input.
 
NYMorningstar said:
From the manual, this is for channels 1-4 on the N8 and I think its channels 1-8 for the n12:

1 ANALOG INPUT jacks (monaural)
These monaural channel input jacks are used to connect
microphones or musical instruments. Each input channel
features two types of jacks (INPUT A and INPUT B).

You can also see that each of these have a pad on them too in case you need to use a line level input.
Click to expand...

I don't know why this interested me, but I downloaded the manual too and it looks to me like inputs 1-8 are all balanced line level inputs and input 8 can also be used for unbalanced, passive instrument input by pushing the "hi z" button on that specific channel. From what I can tell, the TRS inputs on those channels are after the mic preamp and before the inserts, right where line-ins should be (right?). I'm looking at page 20. Page 24 is, I think, showing what happens when you press the hi z button, that it puts the TRS input before the preamp in that case, and the little box on the left says that only works on channel 8 on the n12 (4 on the n8).

...not trying to be argumentative or anything, and again - I don't really know why I even bothered - I think the OP gets the point that preamp output into line-in == peachy, but preamp output into another preamp == maybe not the best.
 
TyphoidHippo said:
I don't know why this interested me, but I downloaded the manual too and it looks to me like inputs 1-8 are all balanced line level inputs and input 8 can also be used for unbalanced, passive instrument input by pushing the "hi z" button on that specific channel. From what I can tell, the TRS inputs on those channels are after the mic preamp and before the inserts, right where line-ins should be (right?). I'm looking at page 20. Page 24 is, I think, showing what happens when you press the hi z button, that it puts the TRS input before the preamp in that case, and the little box on the left says that only works on channel 8 on the n12 (4 on the n8).

...not trying to be argumentative or anything, and again - I don't really know why I even bothered - I think the OP gets the point that preamp output into line-in == peachy, but preamp output into another preamp == maybe not the best.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the input TyphoidHippo.

I don't see where it's saying the TRS inputs are post preamp in fact I see it sayin both A & B inputs are pre gain and pad.

I understand what you are saying though about the hi z on 4 & 8( I see that) and line level being after the preamps but I'm just not seeing that and TRS inputs are generally line level post pre. To say the least the manual is written poorly.
 
NYMorningstar said:
To say the least the manual is written poorly.
Click to expand...

After looking at it more, this is the only thing I'm sure of, heh... This is like the ultimate mashup of vague and ambiguous audio terminology. You're probably right about what it's trying to communicate.

lol@The pic with the guitar through the "effects unit (DI)" into Input B on channel 1 That's just too much...
 
Let me clear this up as I have owned this board for over a year.

The TRS inputs on 1-7 are definately pre-gain and pre-pad. INput 8 on the n12(input 4 on theN8) can be used as a direct instrument in using the "hi-z" button which is only found on that input.

So that being said does this Line in go through the preamp?
 
The biggest "damage" worry about going preamp > preamp is phantom power...

If you connect the output of Preamp "A" into the input of Preamp "B", and Preamp "B"s phantom power is on, you can fry Preamp "A".

Even without the phantom power issue, you might have some damage to Preamp "B" or other items farther up the signal chain. If you're really careless, you could end up blowing your monitors (or your head, if you're wearing headphones)...
 
I've had this same going through my head for some time ...

So ,for clarification purposes... Playing my Ovation connected to the x1832 mixer ,which also has preamps on each line , I should NOT run the pre's on the mixer ?
 
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