Preamp comparison clips: Tascam M-series and Focusrite ISA428

Whoopysnorp

Whoopysnorp

New member
I just got the Focusrite ISA428, and I decided to make a test recording to see how they performed. I have here two clips of drums (the drumming is pretty bad so forgive me):




The mics on this recording are a pair of Peluso CEMC6s overhead in a wide-spaced arrangement, an SM57 with the TapeOp transformerless mod on snare top, a Sennheiser MD421II on snare bottom, an SM7 on kick, Beta 56s on rack toms, and a Sennheiser e602 on floor tom. In one of the clips, everything went through the pres on my Tascam M320 console. In the other clip, the overheads and snare mics went through the Focusrite preamps, the kick through a Presonus Eureka, and the toms through the Tascam desk as before. I'm curious to see what the range of opinions is on which clip is which. There is definitely an audible difference to the sound, but I think it's fair to call it subtle.
 
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And this is why I don't have "golden ears:"

I can't tell a difference. Maybe it's too subtle to hold up to MP3 conversion, or maybe I've got beans in my ears.

I'm not knocking the validity of this test--I hear (or think I hear) differences in my TASCAM Pres (whatever's in an 1804) and all my shabby chic pres: Symetrix (528 & 202), Rane, Art (MPA Gold & Pro Channel), Octane, etc. In my own studio I'm so convinced of the differences that I have different "go to's" for different instruments.

But maybe I'm only fooling myself.

Someone else please come along and tell me what differences you hear in these samples.
 
Clip two sounds like it has more high end. To my ears, I prefer clip one, as the highs on #2 make it sound a little thinner to my ears. I'm listening pretty quietly, though, as my family is asleep upstairs!
 
laptop speakers so take this with a pinch of salt.

I think 2 sounds clearer as it is, but 1 may sound better when mixed
 
2 has a little better cohesion to me.

But yea ... preamp differences are generally subtle and cumulative, as Whitestrat seems to be discovering. :D
 
Daisy said:
2 has a little better cohesion to me.

But yea ... preamp differences are generally subtle and cumulative, as Whitestrat seems to be discovering. :D
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Definitely (thanks in no small part to some of your wisdom a while back). It's too easy to get caught up in the "magic bullet" syndrome. I suspect a number of folks here are using $2000 pres in untreated bedrooms.

First I got the room thing down, then mics and mic placement. But I don't have a pre that cost me more than $500--and that's a two channel. I'll probably own a $2000 pre someday, but not until I've squeezed every last bit of quality out of what I've got now.

(And with all due respect to the $2k+ pre owners, my tracks have improved exponentially by focusing on those other parts of the signal chain first. I listen to my tracks "now" vs. "then" and it makes me crave another great performance--not a new preamp!)
 
WhiteStrat said:
Can you quantify the difference between 1 & 2? I'm having trouble hearing the difference. Maybe knowing what to listen for would help.
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Of course that I can a difference... it´s not that subtle to my ears.
BTW, I´m not saying the clip1 is the ISA, I´m just saying that I liked the most.
Focus on the snare and the bass drum (and cymbals too)... You´ll able to hear differences right away...
Please, let me know if you can hear the difference in the drum sound... I would like to know... :)
 
OK, gonna reveal the answer here, so stop reading this post if you still want to take a guess...






























...























...aaaand clip #1 is indeed the Focusrites. The difference can be hard to hear right away, but you should be able to hear a little more fullness in that clip compared to the other. The Tascam's pres have a more pronounced high-end, though it's hard to tell whether it's just that that makes them seem thinner or whether they are actually thinner on content in the midrange. That board's pres really aren't bad at all, so it's not as if the reference pres were in a Behringer board or something like that. That would probably make for a far more obvious difference.
 
JuliánFernández said:
Of course that I can a difference... it´s not that subtle to my ears.
BTW, I´m not saying the clip1 is the ISA, I´m just saying that I liked the most.
Focus on the snare and the bass drum (and cymbals too)... You´ll able to hear differences right away...
Please, let me know if you can hear the difference in the drum sound... I would like to know... :)
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Okay...I tried again. Nada. Nothing. Zip. I am at work on headphones, but that shouldn't make the test completely invalid. I understand wanting the best sound, expecially when stacking tracks. But if the difference is so subtle that I have to be in my studio in front on my reference speakers to hear it--is it worth it.

I'll bet I could stitch these tracks together and folks couldn't tell where the change from one pre to another is.
 
WhiteStrat said:
Okay...I tried again. Nada. Nothing. Zip. I am at work on headphones, but that shouldn't make the test completely invalid. I understand wanting the best sound, expecially when stacking tracks. But if the difference is so subtle that I have to be in my studio in front on my reference speakers to hear it--is it worth it.

I'll bet I could stitch these tracks together and folks couldn't tell where the change from one pre to another is.
Click to expand...

Give that a shot if you like...I embarrassed myself that way once by listening to some samples somebody made of an electric bass, plugged straight into a preamp, recorded once at 44.1 kHz and once at 192 kHz. I couldn't hear a difference, so I stitched the takes together in an attempt to prove there was none. Of course, people nailed the correct answer right away, and I felt suitably humbled.

Actually, stitching the takes together may help you hear the differences that do exist between these clips. I would expect you to hear a small but sudden change in the overall frequency response. When I was first listening to these tests I had to listen very carefully to one clip and then switch to the other as quickly as possible. Only then did I begin to notice a difference in the way I was perceiving the sounds.
 
I think both clips sound very similar also. Question, are you running the Focusrite through the boards line input before recording? That might explain why they are somewhat similar. I also have a Tascam M320B. Great board btw. I've decided to re-cap mine since it's just a bit noisy. Just ordered the caps today as a matter of fact. I really love this board so I'm hoping to keep it for awhile.
I've never used the pre's for recording. Maybe I'll put them up against my Yamaha PM1000's sometime on drums and see what the difference is. Very interesting, thanks for posting :)
 
Whoopysnorp said:
Give that a shot if you like...I embarrassed myself that way once by listening to some samples somebody made of an electric bass, plugged straight into a preamp, recorded once at 44.1 kHz and once at 192 kHz. I couldn't hear a difference, so I stitched the takes together in an attempt to prove there was none. Of course, people nailed the correct answer right away, and I felt suitably humbled.

Actually, stitching the takes together may help you hear the differences that do exist between these clips. I would expect you to hear a small but sudden change in the overall frequency response. When I was first listening to these tests I had to listen very carefully to one clip and then switch to the other as quickly as possible. Only then did I begin to notice a difference in the way I was perceiving the sounds.
Click to expand...

I might do that. And I'm not trying to piss in anyone's corn flakes here--I want to be able to hear the difference.

In fact, I've got some iso mic splitter channels in the studio--I might try this with some of my own pre's and see if I can hear the difference there.
 
Daveg62 said:
I think both clips sound very similar also. Question, are you running the Focusrite through the boards line input before recording? That might explain why they are somewhat similar. I also have a Tascam M320B. Great board btw. I've decided to re-cap mine since it's just a bit noisy. Just ordered the caps today as a matter of fact. I really love this board so I'm hoping to keep it for awhile.
I've never used the pre's for recording. Maybe I'll put them up against my Yamaha PM1000's sometime on drums and see what the difference is. Very interesting, thanks for posting :)
Click to expand...

Nope, Focusrite's outputs went directly into the line inputs on my RME Fireface 800 (forgot to mention that was the DAW front end used here).
 
Yea, number 2 definitely seemed more cohesive to me ... in the sense that I could almost tell that everything was running through the same pre or board. Helped them meld together a little more, from my perspective.

.
 
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