Postcards From St Ives

robgreen

robgreen

no face
Finally got something new finished! I'd had this tune on the backburner for a while, and every so often I'd pick it up and have a go at completing it, but could never quite make it work. I had a crappy guide beat that I didn't have the skill to replace and the whole thing was in desperate need of some fresh ears.

It was probably at the point of getting canned, when fat_fleet kindly agreed to help me out with it. He's recorded the bass, drums, some percussion, a wee bit of harmony singing and we generally bounced some ideas about. It was dang good fun collaborating and it's great to have some real drums on a song for the first time.

Be great to know what youse think - mix, song, arrangement etc :)

320kbps mps:
Postcards From St Ives 320kps

Soundcloud:


Thanks
 
Nice mood, nice tune. That one note at 00:58 is very nice.
Thanks for posting the separate mp3.
There are some odd dissonant notes that don’t sit well for me but the tunes gets going into a nice little groove. The acoustic sounds a bit boxy at 00:22.
Drum nit. It feels like the drummer is waiting for a queue. Not exactly tentative, maybe pensive. Just an odd feeling I got.
 
I liked the drums sound. Very clear overhead sounds. I'd like to hear a little more snare. a little more crack to it would be nice too.

The vocal, to my ear, is a little harsh. there are notes here and there that get a little hard to listen to. The singing is real good though. The vocal is also buried in spots. Lot's of things in the 2K - 4K space that are battling.

The synth on the right is harsh too.

I think the bass is a little low in the mix.
 
I'm really psyched that you guys did this. Very cool.

I love the drums, vocals and that synth - what exactly is that? I think I've heard that on other tracks of yours. Is that a mellotron kind of thingy? Did you both sing BGVs together? I'm having trouble picking out who is who there...I guess that means you blend together well.

The mix is a little uneven though I think.

The level of the vocal track varies too greatly. Some notes are super loud, and at other times you are indistinct to barely audible. The bass guitar is not clearly defined for me except at the beginning when it first comes in. I think the guitars (acoustic + electric at various times?) are kind of jumbled sounding and could be separated more somehow.

I too heard some dissonance early on that seemed to come from the guitars and bass interacting. Maybe solo just those instruments together and see if you hear it?

I really like the tune though, and it's great to hear the two of you playing on the same track. I'd love to hear any revised mixes, so if you try anything new, please share!
 
This is def very COOOL psych. Needs a little more bass definition and maybe a little less from the OH mics.
I rreally enjoyed the mellotronish tones on the right.
FFleet certainly does a nice job.
Very COOL, please repost updates soon.
 
Manslick said:
Nice mood, nice tune. That one note at 00:58 is very nice.
Thanks for posting the separate mp3.
There are some odd dissonant notes that don’t sit well for me but the tunes gets going into a nice little groove. The acoustic sounds a bit boxy at 00:22.
Drum nit. It feels like the drummer is waiting for a queue. Not exactly tentative, maybe pensive. Just an odd feeling I got.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks a lot for the listen Manslick - stuff like dissonant notes get difficult to pick up on the 1000th listen, so good to get some fresh ears. I'll start trying to identify where they are and working on them. Glad you like the general feel of the piece - I thought it had some good elements, so was reluctant to trash it, but at the same time sick of being stuck. Cheers man :)

TripleM said:
I liked the drums sound. Very clear overhead sounds. I'd like to hear a little more snare. a little more crack to it would be nice too.

The vocal, to my ear, is a little harsh. there are notes here and there that get a little hard to listen to. The singing is real good though. The vocal is also buried in spots. Lot's of things in the 2K - 4K space that are battling.

The synth on the right is harsh too.

I think the bass is a little low in the mix.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your thoughts TripleM. Harshness on the vocal was something I noticed a day or so ago - I wasn't hearing it on my speakers, but then I gave a final check on the headphones and it was almost unlistenable. I eased off on some of the processing and made a notch at around 2.8khz where some nasty sounds seemed to have been coming from - it made a difference, but I agree it's still too much. I've just had a quick look now and although they probably don't account for the entirety of the issue, I had some EQ and a limiter on the master bus that seem to be causing more problems than they're solving. Dealing with them should address a part of the crowdedness at 2-4k as well.

I'll take all your thoughts on board for the new mix, thanks muchly!

heatmiser said:
I'm really psyched that you guys did this. Very cool.

I love the drums, vocals and that synth - what exactly is that? I think I've heard that on other tracks of yours. Is that a mellotron kind of thingy? Did you both sing BGVs together? I'm having trouble picking out who is who there...I guess that means you blend together well.

The mix is a little uneven though I think.

The level of the vocal track varies too greatly. Some notes are super loud, and at other times you are indistinct to barely audible. The bass guitar is not clearly defined for me except at the beginning when it first comes in. I think the guitars (acoustic + electric at various times?) are kind of jumbled sounding and could be separated more somehow.

I too heard some dissonance early on that seemed to come from the guitars and bass interacting. Maybe solo just those instruments together and see if you hear it?

I really like the tune though, and it's great to hear the two of you playing on the same track. I'd love to hear any revised mixes, so if you try anything new, please share!
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Pete, I'm really glad you liked the song, even though the mix clearly needs a bit of working still. I can never seem to get a balanced mix the first time around - I feel this marks progress on previous first mixes, but it aint my strongest suit.

Yeah, the synth is a mellotron patch - I think it was the strings sound I used before on The Oddest Sea, but this time around it's the flute. It's such a nice sound from the off that it was a good opportunity to use throughout a tune. I just bought the sampletron software recently which has all the trons though the ages, so I'm looking forward to getting stuck into that once I've finished this.

The vocals have been a nightmare to mix. My feeling is it's partly because the volume of the arrangement tends to swell and subside around it and partly because the vocal melody covers about an octave and a half - the higher notes get a little overwhelming and the lower notes seem to get lost in the wash. I need to work a bit more on how to address it.

On your vocal query, fleet makes a blink-and-you'll-miss it cameo for a couple of lines beginning at the "the moon is always down" line :D

I've got the afternoon free now, and as there's a theme that there are a few clashes and the bass could do with re-visiting, I'll see what I can get done. New mix coming up!

rayc said:
This is def very COOOL psych. Needs a little more bass definition and maybe a little less from the OH mics.
I rreally enjoyed the mellotronish tones on the right.
FFleet certainly does a nice job.
Very COOL, please repost updates soon.
Click to expand...

He certainly does, I pretty much just dropped the drums in as he sent me and loved em from the beginning. Real drums make such a difference to everything - fulness of the mix, dynamics etc etc etc. Thanks a lot for listening and glad you liked the feel and the tune - fat fleet mentioned the bass being a bit light earlier in the process too. I made a tweak, but perhaps a bit conservative as I always seem to go overboard with bass in the early stages. Cheers racey :)

Right, to work!
 
Agree with the previous post's, really cool vibe on this, I also think a little more bass may help give this a stronger groove...harmonies very nice....
 
I'm too much of a baby to comment on the HR, but I like the song a lot. I was surprised to read that's a flute a synth. It sounds REAL sweet and gives a proper moody feel.
 
Sorry, that seems like a long list of complaints looking back.

Keep in mind I'm not listening in a studio environment or anything, so not sure why I continue to offer specific advice, but that's what I was hearing yesterday. Interesting about the mellotron. Even though it's different patch/instrument/ whatever, it has the same distinct feel as the Oddest Sea tracks. I heard that tune the other day on Soundcloud and still really love that one! Maybe you can help me by adding some of those sounds to a track of mine if I ever get something started again...?

I kind of have general production ideas about a big collab involving you and several other members here, but don't have any specific musical ideas yet.
 
i think theres a little unevenness in some of the track levels...i like the dissonant parts, theyre just a little to loud

but its great otherwise, doing a collab really fills areas where youre weaker and strengthens your performance...again Im reminded of the zombies, the mellotron sound should be your signature, it really matches your vocal tone for some reason


nice work both of you
 
queepy said:
Agree with the previous post's, really cool vibe on this, I also think a little more bass may help give this a stronger groove...harmonies very nice....
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks queepy. I'm trying to re-balance the bass in the new mix, so hopefully that will work better soon. Glad you liked the harmonies too, they came about much easier than usual - I hit record and sang whatever came into my head, listened back and felt it worked, so did a second take to double it up and mixed it in.

fritsthegirl said:
I'm too much of a baby to comment on the HR, but I like the song a lot. I was surprised to read that's a flute a synth. It sounds REAL sweet and gives a proper moody feel.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for listening and for your kind words frits. Aye, it's amazing what you can get with a midi controller these days. With a bit of hunting and a lot of trial and error, the world's at your feet :D

heatmiser said:
Sorry, that seems like a long list of complaints looking back.

Keep in mind I'm not listening in a studio environment or anything, so not sure why I continue to offer specific advice, but that's what I was hearing yesterday. Interesting about the mellotron. Even though it's different patch/instrument/ whatever, it has the same distinct feel as the Oddest Sea tracks. I heard that tune the other day on Soundcloud and still really love that one! Maybe you can help me by adding some of those sounds to a track of mine if I ever get something started again...?

I kind of have general production ideas about a big collab involving you and several other members here, but don't have any specific musical ideas yet.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it Heat, I'd far rather get some honest feedback and the mixing side is always the bit I struggle with. I'd rather that's where I fall a little short in the process, as with a bit of advice I can generally address the areas concerned.

Glad you still like the Oddest Sea tune - that's one where listening back I can hear a lot of pretty naive mixing decisions. I'd like to go back and re-do parts of it some day, but I've got more songs than time to record as it is, so it may be a while! I'd be more than happy to help out on anything of yours you work on - just send me a PM as and when. Hope you do get up and running with some new stuff soon - especially if you're feeling in a bit of a dead end place with your job, you need somewhere to exercise your creative side.

kcearl said:
i think theres a little unevenness in some of the track levels...i like the dissonant parts, theyre just a little to loud

but its great otherwise, doing a collab really fills areas where youre weaker and strengthens your performance...again Im reminded of the zombies, the mellotron sound should be your signature, it really matches your vocal tone for some reason


nice work both of you
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Thanks a lot for listening in kc and glad you liked. I do like the mellotron sound a lot, it takes all my willpower to avoid slathering it over everything I do! I think it's the graininess of them - they're the musical equivalent of old polaroids.

I'm working on the vocal leveling and the dissonant parts in the new mix. As I mentioned above, it's been a bit of a challenge to get the vocals even and an even bigger one for fleet and I to hear the dissonance in the first place. I don't think we've the most discerning ears between us! Thanks for your thoughts anyway and hopefully with a bit more tweaking, we'll be there :D
 
I've been slacking a bit this weekend, but probably will retrack that bass. I feel kinda bad cuz there was a perfectly usable (if more minimal) bass part on there from the outset that I hijacked after doing the drums. Anyone who heard the "dissonant note" mind pointing out where it occurs? I can't seem to find it.... but I've always had a pretty forgiving ear for what others consider "dissonant".

Thanks for the comments folks.... I kinda tried to stay in the background on this one and make my parts support what I thought was a really great song from the outset. It was a blast to work on and moved along very smoothly.
 
Hey - for me, the section between :40 and :52 was where I heard some strange stuff. There's a louder part off to the left that's either a guitar or kind of an organ playing single notes that ends right around :52. To me, that line and the bass guitar notes don't sound right together. It sounds fine immediately following that section.

I don't know that you should feel bad about the bass part, I bet it's cool. I just can't really hear it clearly much of the time.
 
Cool, thanks for that. Yeah, I totally hear that line....sounds like a Rhodes or e. piano patch. Funny, I still don't think it sounds dissonant...my ears hear it blue-noteish. Ah well.
 
Sounds okay to me. I'd like more bass, Maybe a little more vocals. The song is so soft and sleepy though it's fine as-is to me.
 
If the notes are dissonant it's seems more aparent because something is playing bass notes on the opposite side - it doesn't sound like the bass part though as it's jus a couple of booms.
Enjoyed the relisten - I like the vocal levels personally.
COOL stuff.
 
heatmiser said:
Hey - for me, the section between :40 and :52 was where I heard some strange stuff. There's a louder part off to the left that's either a guitar or kind of an organ playing single notes that ends right around :52. To me, that line and the bass guitar notes don't sound right together. It sounds fine immediately following that section.

I don't know that you should feel bad about the bass part, I bet it's cool. I just can't really hear it clearly much of the time.
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh, ok I can finally see what the dissonance comments relate to. Thanks for clearing it up Hear. That's our third collaborator on the piece; Nina Simone. I've always really liked her music and and in particular, her piano playing on a song called Four Women. It has such a beautiful tone and this really rich sustain on it, that I wanted to sample it and build a new song around it. I chopped it up and built everything up from that base point and this is the end result.

In case anyone's interested, I just rendered a pared down version of this part of the song so you can hear. The absence of mellotron and vocals changes the complexion of the whole thing, and does give it something of a Blue Note feel: PFSI snippet

I like the slight dissonance from the jazzy chords, but we can maybe get the relationship with the bass better and the low end sitting prettier.

Greg_L said:
Sounds okay to me. I'd like more bass, Maybe a little more vocals. The song is so soft and sleepy though it's fine as-is to me.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks a lot for the listen Greg - evening out the vocal levels and bass are the main things I'm trying to address in the new mix (without necessarily making any huge changes) so hopefully I'll stumble on the right balance in the end.

rayc said:
If the notes are dissonant it's seems more aparent because something is playing bass notes on the opposite side - it doesn't sound like the bass part though as it's jus a couple of booms.
Enjoyed the relisten - I like the vocal levels personally.
COOL stuff.
Click to expand...

Cheers Ray - there's a pretty minimal double bass that accompanies the piano playing on the sample. I wonder whether that could be causing a clash? I'll try cutting out some more of the bass tones on the sample and see if that goes any way to addressing it.
 
Right, here we go - new mix done.

I'm at the very edge of my mixing abilities here, so even if there are still issues I think it's all dark matter beyond this point. I EQd out the double bass on the sample to remove some potential clashing with Fleet's bass, revisited a load of settings to try and give the bass a better place in the mix and eased back on some stuff remove some harshness on the vocals/address their levels.

The upshot is that the differences are probably fairly small, but hopefully resolve the issues in the initial mix (which is still in the first post). If anyone's still willing, please let me know how it sounds:

Postcards From St. Ives - updated mix

Thanks
Rob :)
 
I couldn't hear the bass problem any more. If it's there it's pretty low level & the only otehr way I could think of to deal with it would be to draete a crossover point just above that freq point and send the bottom end of the sample track to the centre of the stereo spead so that it would be mono'd and sound like part of the kick & bass section anyway.
Overall it sounds pretty fine to me.
When you're sure you're done please post a link to a 320 or, even better, a FLAC of the track!
 
Interesting, the new mix sounds good. Vocals are more present throughout. FF's bass is clearer now as well, though still a bit rumbly I think.

I watched Nina doing 4 Women live circa 1969 on youtube and it was pretty cool. I see how what she did would inspire this, but did you ever listen to this tune with only your original tracks? I wonder what that would sound like? Ray nailed down what I was hearing originally. It was the deep bass part and not part of FF's bass track I think. The dissonance is minimized now, but for me, it still sounds kinda jumbled all together. Even on the short clip without the mellotron and stuff.

I dunno. Not trying to be difficult :-)D) but I really like the vocals, drums, mellotron and your guitars on this. For me, I think it is the samples that are throwing it off. I just find myself wishing I could hear only those elements above which might open it up for the bass guitar a little more? Having said that, I am not implying that you should do a custom mix just for me!
 
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