I was wondering what would be the best positioning for my two Behringer ECM8000s as drum overheads. I've heard they should be as high up as possible and I've heard they should be level with the drummers ears. So, what would be the best positioning? We record in a 3 car garage with lots of 'verb, by the way...
Positioning of ECM8000s
- Thread starter Abbott
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darrin_h2000
Banned
In that case the best position for the ECM8000s would be in the case because you will not get a good recording in that garage. The best Idea I have tried yet was one I just read last week with one of them approx two sticks away from the snare pointed down at the snare and the other over the right shoulder same distance and also pointed at the snare.
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
Abbott
Using Darrin_2000's technique in my drummers garage,I recorded this clip with Behringer ECM8000s as drum overheads.SM57 on snare and MXL V67B on the kick.
The "2 stick" distance means you are micing inside the kit,so to speak.As opposed to the common practice now of wide micing with its impossible stereo images.
The real key is measuring so that the overhead mic capsules are equidistant from the snare and kick to assure proper centering of the stereo image as well as the side benefit of eliminating phase problems.
Using Darrin_2000's technique in my drummers garage,I recorded this clip with Behringer ECM8000s as drum overheads.SM57 on snare and MXL V67B on the kick.
The "2 stick" distance means you are micing inside the kit,so to speak.As opposed to the common practice now of wide micing with its impossible stereo images.
The real key is measuring so that the overhead mic capsules are equidistant from the snare and kick to assure proper centering of the stereo image as well as the side benefit of eliminating phase problems.
"It doesn't really matter where you point them. They're omnis."
It would be nice if alan or harvey or someone with as much experience was around to verify this, but that just might be the biggest load of gibberish that I have ever seen.
Other than the "2 stick technique" and harvey's "triangle" technique, the only thing that I can offer is (if you are open to a big huge drum sound) taking advantage of the huge garage sound.
After walking around the room while the drummer plays and finding the spots where it really sounds the best, try positioning the mics straight up in those spots. This will hear all of the space above and around the mic (I believe), and capture a lot of the bouncy bouncy of the sound waves. Try everywhere. In front, or beside, or behind the drums. You never know where the sweet spots might be..
But if you're looking for a tight drum sound...that might be very difficult with these mics. You might try building some kind of "tent" around the drums..
IMO, the room plays a big role in determining what the drums will sound like, especially when using the ECM8000's.
It would be nice if alan or harvey or someone with as much experience was around to verify this, but that just might be the biggest load of gibberish that I have ever seen.
Other than the "2 stick technique" and harvey's "triangle" technique, the only thing that I can offer is (if you are open to a big huge drum sound) taking advantage of the huge garage sound.
After walking around the room while the drummer plays and finding the spots where it really sounds the best, try positioning the mics straight up in those spots. This will hear all of the space above and around the mic (I believe), and capture a lot of the bouncy bouncy of the sound waves. Try everywhere. In front, or beside, or behind the drums. You never know where the sweet spots might be..
But if you're looking for a tight drum sound...that might be very difficult with these mics. You might try building some kind of "tent" around the drums..
IMO, the room plays a big role in determining what the drums will sound like, especially when using the ECM8000's.
trew said:
In fact I do have experience, and a lot of the things I know about omnis comes from Harvey and other eqully-experienced recording engineers. I might suggest you do a little research on how omni-directional mics work when you take a break from building your tents.
The ecm8000's are omni-directional, meaning they pick up sound from all around. This can sometimes make stereo micing a challenge -- and you run in to a greater danger of phase issues --unless they are spaced farther apart.
Also, by nature they pick up much more room embience than a traditional cardiod patter you are probably used to. This is why it is important to consider your room accoustics more when using an omni. Bringing them in closer to the source you are recording can help minimize what I like to call your "signal-to-room ratio." And since they are omnis, you can get away with this a little more because they have an almost non-existent proximity effect.
. . . or you could just build yourself a tent which would be cool because it can also be used for sleep-overs. Or if your drummer should decide to take a nap it will protect him from the elements.
pratt
New member
I've gotten great results with the ecm8000s as overheads placed in a spaced stereo configuration spaced about 7-8 feet apart about 2 feet in front of the kit. I position the mics nearly horizontal, with a slight angle towards the kit at about a height of 6ft.
with those mics +kick and snare - I've gotten a pretty good drum sound...I actually almost think that these sound better than my Rode NT3s (say it aint so!)...quite the bargain for $35/mic!
with those mics +kick and snare - I've gotten a pretty good drum sound...I actually almost think that these sound better than my Rode NT3s (say it aint so!)...quite the bargain for $35/mic!
"In fact I do have experience..."
Right... because you say it, it must be true!
" I might suggest you do a little research on how omni-directional mics work when you take a break from building your tents."
No no no, I'm much too busy posting gibberish on the HR bbs to do any actual research or recording, that would be too hard.
And you are absolutely correct about my stupid tent idea. I mean...no one in the history of recording has ever attempted to build a structure around the drums for deadening or separation. And if anyone did attempt it, the outcome would be so horrendous that the resulting unlistenable noise wouldn't have a chance in hell of ending up in the final mix. Gee, if I could just put my cheeseburger down and get my sorry ass away from this forum for a single moment and do a little research or (heavan forbid!) maybe even some actual recording, I just might know that. Sorry for wasting your precious time with my nonesense.
Please tell us more about spreading the mics out as much as possible. Did you come up with that one back in your analog days? Do tell!
And of course I know how omni-directional mics work! ..By being positioned On My Knee. How do you think they came up with the name? It got shortened to "on m'knee", then "om'knee", and finally "omni". That's all I was saying when I called your quote gibberish. You see, it matters a great deal where you point them... they must be pointing On My Knee!
Ahem..
Sorry about that folks...
Yes, the ECM8000's can get some great drum sounds. I think it's important to experiment with your particular room...since they will be picking up a lot of that room, and most rooms sound pretty different from eachother. I also think that you can accomplish a lot just by treating the room in different ways. Put blankets up, down, over, across..try everything, some pillows, move the furniture around, build a tunnel for the kick...or maybe even a tent.
Right... because you say it, it must be true!
" I might suggest you do a little research on how omni-directional mics work when you take a break from building your tents."
No no no, I'm much too busy posting gibberish on the HR bbs to do any actual research or recording, that would be too hard.
And you are absolutely correct about my stupid tent idea. I mean...no one in the history of recording has ever attempted to build a structure around the drums for deadening or separation. And if anyone did attempt it, the outcome would be so horrendous that the resulting unlistenable noise wouldn't have a chance in hell of ending up in the final mix. Gee, if I could just put my cheeseburger down and get my sorry ass away from this forum for a single moment and do a little research or (heavan forbid!) maybe even some actual recording, I just might know that. Sorry for wasting your precious time with my nonesense.
Please tell us more about spreading the mics out as much as possible. Did you come up with that one back in your analog days? Do tell!
And of course I know how omni-directional mics work! ..By being positioned On My Knee. How do you think they came up with the name? It got shortened to "on m'knee", then "om'knee", and finally "omni". That's all I was saying when I called your quote gibberish. You see, it matters a great deal where you point them... they must be pointing On My Knee!
Ahem..
Sorry about that folks...
Yes, the ECM8000's can get some great drum sounds. I think it's important to experiment with your particular room...since they will be picking up a lot of that room, and most rooms sound pretty different from eachother. I also think that you can accomplish a lot just by treating the room in different ways. Put blankets up, down, over, across..try everything, some pillows, move the furniture around, build a tunnel for the kick...or maybe even a tent.
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Blake Long
New member
I only use these things as room mics. It doesn't seem like they're bright enough to be overheads in my opinion. I have done it though and they seemed to work fine about 8 feet apart over the kit. There are other cheap cond. mics that work better as overheads such as the 603s.
with all these varying oppinions...i must say that it is hard for me to decide wheather or not to buy these mics...ha
i know - you'll say 35 bucks each you can't loose...but i can...i can lose 70 bucks to be exact...haha
i got a basement...just covered all the big walls with carpet, and its a fairly big room down there.....open ceiling (just wood and wires up there)....and quite a bit of ventilation ducts...
would you reccommend:
-keeping to use my SM58's as overheads
-get a pair of ECM8000's
-what else that would be under 100 bucks each mic (i'd need 2...so a total of 200ish)?
i know - you'll say 35 bucks each you can't loose...but i can...i can lose 70 bucks to be exact...haha
i got a basement...just covered all the big walls with carpet, and its a fairly big room down there.....open ceiling (just wood and wires up there)....and quite a bit of ventilation ducts...
would you reccommend:
-keeping to use my SM58's as overheads
-get a pair of ECM8000's
-what else that would be under 100 bucks each mic (i'd need 2...so a total of 200ish)?
...OCD for pairs
"But currently these amount to two."
Well sure, ya gotta start somewhere!
But which "two" are you referring to?
Is it my pair of:
ECM8000's?, MXL603s's?, SP B1's?, SCM900's?
Shoes?, Ears?, Hands?, Feet?, Nostrils?
Which is it??
I think blake's got a good point, shack. Check out the 603s's for overheads since you can afford them. The ECM's are a great deal and can perform double duty as overheads, but seem even better for room.
"But currently these amount to two."
Well sure, ya gotta start somewhere!
But which "two" are you referring to?
Is it my pair of:
ECM8000's?, MXL603s's?, SP B1's?, SCM900's?
Shoes?, Ears?, Hands?, Feet?, Nostrils?
Which is it??
I think blake's got a good point, shack. Check out the 603s's for overheads since you can afford them. The ECM's are a great deal and can perform double duty as overheads, but seem even better for room.
Hey trew. I hear they're having a special on tents at Walmart. I was just wondering if I shouild get the big, green one or a red one? Two-person or Holidome? I was also considering sticking my drummer in a camper instead, but I'm worried how he will see the rest of the band, and the whole running water issue and everything.
Let me know. Thanks Trewy.
Let me know. Thanks Trewy.
darrin_h2000
Banned
If I didnt have the tracking room, Id consider the tent. If you use the ecm8000s dont forget to put a blanket over the Bass drum.
Im thinking of getting a couple of B1s for room mics, any opinions?
Im thinking of getting a couple of B1s for room mics, any opinions?
My lack of clarity..
No, no, you silly goose! I didn't mean a tent for camping, I meant a circus tent! What we do is train chumpanzees to do all of the playing and recording so that we can spend our precious time on more important things like eating cheeseburgers and sleuthing out evil spammers!
Seriously tho, if $300 is too steep (it is for me), a bunch of boom stands and some packing blankets might do the trick until you can afford a circus tent.
Wow, if I keep this up I might soon become a dedicated member. I am so excited and proud! Wait 'till I tell my mom!
C-YA, C-YA, C-YA...
No, no, you silly goose! I didn't mean a tent for camping, I meant a circus tent! What we do is train chumpanzees to do all of the playing and recording so that we can spend our precious time on more important things like eating cheeseburgers and sleuthing out evil spammers!
Seriously tho, if $300 is too steep (it is for me), a bunch of boom stands and some packing blankets might do the trick until you can afford a circus tent.
Wow, if I keep this up I might soon become a dedicated member. I am so excited and proud! Wait 'till I tell my mom!
C-YA, C-YA, C-YA...
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darrin_h2000 said:
No offense intended, Darrin, but that is one ridiculous statement! This is "Home" recording, not "Ideal" recording. And anyway, we have no idea what kind of acoustics his garage has, what he is playing, or even what may be "good" to his ears. Shit, I've heard drums done in cracker-box bedrooms that sound very good and used to record drums in my garage before moving to the basement with pleasant results. And that there is a 1 banger! I think with the proper attention, an excellent drum sound could be attained in a garage. May take some tailoring, but it's definitely possible. Let's encourage each other, not discourage.