Poor and needing a better vocal mic!

W

Will_R

Bass player, apparently
Hi guys,

Im new, so go easy :)

Im looking for a half-decent mic for doing vocals and bass, possibly e-guitar too.

I've been thinking of the Apex 435, im not expecting anything amazing, but I can get it for £40, and it seems to get some pretty good reviews.

And, well, anything is better than the Behringer dynamics we've been using (X1800S i think? ultra cheap, 3 in a pack job).


I've got some fairly decent gear (for low-mid home studio stuff :) )

Presonus Firepod
Presonus Eureka Mic Pre
M-Audio Tampa Mic Pre

And a host of bass amps, cabs and guitar amps and cabs.

Our drummer has an e-kit (Roland TD-3), which we use along with EZDrummer. And we have started recording the bass and guitar direct and using Ampeg SVX and Amplitube 2 (respectivley).

And its really time i looked into getting a niceish mic! (the behringers were "ok" (especially considering the price) ), but they arent cutting it.

Im thinking of getting the Apex 435 and then maybe down the line getting the Apex 460 tube mic and modifying it (have read great things about the modded ones).

Anyone have any suggestions other than the 435?

Cheers guys :)

- Will
 
An sm57 could get you buy in all those situations. I've used 57's with good results with male vocals, just used it on a bass cab last week and it's great for e guitars. Works on drums too. Not to mention you can sell it for almost 70% of it's new value within hours of putting it up if you had to sell it.
 
I've not tried the Aphex but I have a Studio Projects B1. It's a little more expensive at £69 but I've been extremely impressed with mine. Check out all the write ups and reviews to see what other people think.
 
jonnyc said:
An sm57 could get you buy in all those situations. I've used 57's with good results with male vocals, just used it on a bass cab last week and it's great for e guitars. Works on drums too. Not to mention you can sell it for almost 70% of it's new value within hours of putting it up if you had to sell it.
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Im going to get some 57s down the line, but im really looking at some wide diaphram condenser mics, ive used 57s before and the sound is ok for bass, but they lack in the low end, DI ing and blending helps, but id rather a condenser :)


dickiefunk said:
I've not tried the Aphex but I have a Studio Projects B1. It's a little more expensive at £69 but I've been extremely impressed with mine. Check out all the write ups and reviews to see what other people think.
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Cheers! Will look into it!
 
Will_R said:
Im going to get some 57s down the line, but im really looking at some wide diaphram condenser mics, ive used 57s before and the sound is ok for bass, but they lack in the low end, DI ing and blending helps, but id rather a condenser :)




Cheers! Will look into it!
Click to expand...

Have you ever used a condenser? I use a dynamic on bass cabs all the time with fantastic results. I just find that a quality dynamic will sound much less harsh and spitty compared to a cheap condenser mic. If you want a good, cheap condenser try to find a used mxl v67g. I absolutely love mine and Harvey Gearst uses one on a regular basis.
 
jonnyc said:
Have you ever used a condenser? I use a dynamic on bass cabs all the time with fantastic results. I just find that a quality dynamic will sound much less harsh and spitty compared to a cheap condenser mic. If you want a good, cheap condenser try to find a used mxl v67g. I absolutely love mine and Harvey Gearst uses one on a regular basis.
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I too have found that the v67g sounds pretty good on several sources. But I haven't used it much since I got my at4050, so I guess it's all relative.
 
The Apex 435 seems to be highly variable in build quality. They use different parts depending on what is handy. Therefore, your mileage may vary widely depending on the production run.

I bought one for $35 a year ago and played with it. It sounded less harsh for my voice than my Studio Projects B3 does. Others have found them to be very harsh and brittle. Like I said, your mileage may vary dramatically.
 
Although the Studio Projects B line mics don't suit everybody's voice, you'll get a lot more mileage out of it than the Apex. I use mine for everything. My Apex sits in a box.
 
Yes, I will agree with jonnyc. The shure sm57 is a very good mic, used for vocals for years now, reliable and not so expensive
 
cusebassman said:
Don't know about the SM57, never used it, but I'd second going for the MXL recommendation over the Apex.
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The SM57... not so much. I'd rather use it as a hammer than a vocal mic. It's okay for some things, but vocals aren't one of them, IMHO. Now the SM7, maybe. I keep hearing folks say that they like them for some types of vocals.

The 435 isn't a bad mic, but I haven't had time to really put it through its paces. It didn't suit my voice wonderfully, so it pretty much sits on a shelf waiting for a vocalist that it will suit better.

My advice would be that if you're going to go tube, you should get a tube mic that's good to begin with. If you want to improve it later, that's fine, but you shouldn't polish a turd. :D Depending on the voice, perhaps a CAD M9 or an ADK GT-2 MKII.

I've used the GT-2 MK II's predecessor, the GT-2, which is basically the Apex 460 but with a better capsule, and it has its uses. I like the M9 better for my voice, but again, it depends on the voice and to a degree, even the style of the music. If I'm singing low stuff at the bottom of my range and want a smoky sound, I reach for the GT-2 to give it that airy sort of sound. For normal singing, I go for the M9.

Just my $0.02.
 
dgatwood said:
The SM57... not so much. I'd rather use it as a hammer than a vocal mic.
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So it works for Bono, but not for you? I know he used a 58 but the difference wouldn't be obvious in the final product. I don't know where you get this from because I've used it dozens of times with great results, in fact better than most of my cheaper condensers. I'm just curious as to what you're doing so wrong that you can't get a usable sound from it.
 
jonnyc said:
So it works for Bono, but not for you? I know he used a 58 but the difference wouldn't be obvious in the final product. I don't know where you get this from because I've used it dozens of times with great results, in fact better than most of my cheaper condensers. I'm just curious as to what you're doing so wrong that you can't get a usable sound from it.
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That's like saying the color red worked for Picasso but not for me. Dude. They are all tools...nothing more.
 
corban said:
Although the Studio Projects B line mics don't suit everybody's voice, you'll get a lot more mileage out of it than the Apex. I use mine for everything. My Apex sits in a box.
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Why dont you sell him your Apex, then??

If you decide to buy Apex, you should consider the 410 Ribbon instead. Much smoother sound for vocs, and handles high spl's that come with bass and guitar cab work. It will give you waaaaaay better results than ANY sm57.....the sm57 is overrated, imo, now that the new prices are coming more in line with the other budget mics floating around out there.

I have a 410 for vocs, and a Cascade Fathead ribbon on my guitar cab. Both are much better than any budget dynamic I ever had, with the possible exception of the EV ND468. I was even surprised at how well an EV ND967 worked for guitar cab! You'll have to get into the slightly higher dynamics like the Heil PR30/PR40 or the RE20 to start getting better sound than the budget ribbons will give you. A $100 dollar ribbon will - imo - always beat any $100 dollar dynamic...... I didn't believe it either until I tried it.

Other good choices for more $$$$ are the MD421, SM7, the better AT mics, and some of the AKG 414's floating around. I dont recommend a cheap tube mic. They do not usually have real tubes in them, many simply have a circuit that emulates a tube. If you want a tube mic, save for a good one, one with a real tube that you can change out if you like.
 
jonnyc said:
So it works for Bono, but not for you? I know he used a 58 but the difference wouldn't be obvious in the final product. I don't know where you get this from because I've used it dozens of times with great results, in fact better than most of my cheaper condensers. I'm just curious as to what you're doing so wrong that you can't get a usable sound from it.
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It's not anything I'm doing wrong. The human voice still has content above 15 kHz (albeit mostly breath noise, sibilance, and other non-critical content), but the SM5x frequency response basically hits a brick wall there because of the mass of the diaphragm/coil combination. As a result, despite their hyped high end, they have no "air" at all because of the weak response up above the presence peak, resulting in a tubby sound overall, IMHO.

If you're doing a thick mix, the SM57/58 are okay choices; everything else will mask the lack of detail in the vocal signal anyway, at least to a degree. If you're doing anything thin, it will stand out like a sore thumb. That's not saying it can't sound okay, but there are any number of even relatively cheap mics (sub $100) that I'd typically pick up for vocals before I'd go near an SM57 or SM58.
 
For good Vocals buy any of the large Condenser Mics (1"), set the input at 100%-102%
on your Meter (VU or LEDS) and stay off the Mic about 1-2 Feet away. Use a Pop Filter
or Filter Screen and go for it. The resulting Vocals should be very crisp, clear, and pretty
loud in the Mix. You will be surprised. I use an MXL MCA SP2 for many of my Vocals and I
get excellent results good enough for any studio. You can avoid alot of Proximity Effect
on your Vocals (bass increase as you get closer to the Mic) if you will use a large Condenser
Mic on Vocals. Make sure to look at the Frequency Response graphs for each Condenser Mic
before buying one -- look for a linear response on the graph for the midrange frequencies.
The Behringer B-1 is an excellent Mic just don't psuh the volume too much or get too close or
it will tend to distort on you but this Mic has a 10db pad on it if you do. AKG mics are excellent
as are the Shure KM series. There are lots of great large Condenser mics out there to choose from.
Good Luck...
 
If you're going to get an inexpensive LDC, here's three suggestions for under $100:

MXL 9090 (from MF): a MXL V67i clone without the the green&gold cosmetics, that will save you a bundle and end up as a keeper. Currently on sale for $70.

GXL3000: Sometimes on sale for as low as $70 (currently $100). Surprisingly useful tri-pattern mic, without an overly hyped hi-end.

CAD M177: Sometimes as low as $60, often available for $100. Neutral and smooth, versatile cardiod with great specs. Another keeper.

Paj
8^)
 
soundchaser59 said:
If you decide to buy Apex, you should consider the 410 Ribbon instead.
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I'll take that one further, if you're going to consider the apex 410 ribbon, you should consider the 205 ribbon instead. cheaper, IMHO better sound out of the box (fewer phasing issues), few if any annoying resonances from the grill, and a wonderful mic.

you've got the preamps to work with a ribbon, might as well get in the game. similar to a dynamic but smoother.

PS: the sm57 has been used for lead vocals on many famous recordings. billy joel, bono are a couple of examples, but there are MANY more. a studio staple.

PPS: the sm57 has the same dynamic capsule as the sm7 and the sm58 (in different subcasings and with different transformers and pop screens and bodies).
 
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