please help me mic my drum set

[Milkfaj]

(i also posted this question in the drums and percussion section, so i apologize for the double posting!)

I have a four piece drumset. one crash , one ride, one china and crash on top of each other. piccolo snare, which i hope to replace soon.

i have up to eight tracks to record them to, although i'd like to use less than 8.

I have the following mics- tell me where you would put them:

SM57
D112
Sennheiser MD421
Beyer M201
(2x) AT4040
Shure PG58
Turner Model 99 (1940's)
Reslo Ribbon (1960's)

Ive been using the 57 on snare, MD421 on kick, and the 4040's as overheads, but im only semi-satisfied with the results. im interested in trying some new and perhaps unorthodox suggestions- thanks!

i just got the beyer and the vintage Mics, so i havent got to test them out much.

im recording to an analog reel to reel through an A&H mixwizard, i also have a DBX 266, which I dont use often.

 

[tangerine]

dear milkfaj
If you can get hold of a pressure zone plate mic and experiment on placing it on one of the walls with some gaffa tape and mix the sound behind a closely miced kit you might find it will beef the kit up and give it a more live feel.

 

[Milkfaj]

that sounds very interesting, and i love a live sound, or a sound with a lot of ambience, but im not looking to buy anything new, just to get suggestions about ways to use my existing equiptment differently- thanks though!

P.S.- what is particular model of a pressure zone mic that i might be able to research?

 

[Adam P]

Based on popular choices on this board and elsewhere (since the only mic in your list that I have used is the SM57), I would do:

D112 on kick, 201 on snare, SM57 on rack tom, MD421 on floor tom, and AT4040s as overheads

Or

D112 on kick, 201 on snare, 57 on rack tom, 421 on floor tom, and an M-S setup with an AT4040 as the Mid and the Reslo (I'm assuming its a figure eight) as the Side.

Then I would sell the 57 and buy a Sennheiser e609 Silver and put that on the rack tom instead.

 

[tangerine]

This is a method used by a English producer called Martin Hannett or Martin Zero and a method I have used when in a bit of a fix. Record the kit close mic'ed send a mixed signal of all the kit to a ambient room. Mic up the room with the condensers in two corners one in each and record this playback on one track now mix this recording behind the closely mic'ed kit it should give it a good live feel. You might have to play with it until you get it right but it should work.

 

[Crowley]

This is a method used by a English producer called Martin Hannett or Martin Zero and a method I have used when in a bit of a fix. Record the kit close mic'ed send a mixed signal of all the kit to a ambient room. Mic up the room with the condensers in two corners one in each and record this playback on one track now mix this recording behind the closely mic'ed kit it should give it a good live feel. You might have to play with it until you get it right but it should work.

that is a very interesting idea...tell me more

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

Ive been using the 57 on snare, MD421 on kick, and the 4040's as overheads, but im only semi-satisfied with the results.

If it sound bad with those mics, you should turn your attention to the tuning of the set, and placement of the mics.

 

[MessianicDreams]

that is a very interesting idea...tell me more

this is actually how the used to get reverb by putting a speaker in 1 corner playing the tracks that need reverb and sticking a mic at the other side of the room, therefore picking up ambient sound..


as someone said, if the mic's you're using now don't sound good, take a look at the tuning of your kit. read up about this on the net, i'm sure there are some very good FAQ's on how to do this. many people (including many drummers) really don't know what they're doing and try sticking loads of gaffa on the heads. i'm not saying don't use any, it's a fairly good tool for dealing with ring, but you shouldn't realyl find yourself with more than 1-2 pieces per head..if you're listening to the kit "live" (as in standing next to it to listen) and you're think "ugh this sounds horrid"then you can EQ and tweek the recording as much as you want but it'll still sound horrid. garbage in = garbage out!!

also try changing the mic position by a few cm. get someone else to do this while you listen to just that mic until you get something that you like the sound of, as changing the position by just a few cms really changes the sound drastically.

how do you have your OH set up? i guess it depends how you work but i always consider OH as "whole kit" mics rather than cymbal mics. listen to the OH on their own, and the kit should sound fairly even, without anything particularly jumping out (except for the kick which'll probably too weak). consider whether you want a coincident pair (litterally toughing) or a spaced pair. check for phase cancelling in the OHs as well..


good luck

MD

 

[Yareek]

I have the following mics- tell me where you would put them:

SM57
D112
Sennheiser MD421
Beyer M201
(2x) AT4040
Shure PG58
Turner Model 99 (1940's)
Reslo Ribbon (1960's)

How many toms do you have?

This is what I would do:

Put the AT4040's as stereo overheads. Experiment with different stereo techniques (read the big thread on mic patterns at the top for explanation). Try ORTF; it's my favorite. And if you don't like your drum sound, you should sell me your AT4040's

M201 on the snare. Experiment with positioning. I use and love mine. Best mic for snare ever. I do about an inch or two above the rim, about an inch or less in, pointed at the center.

D112 on the kick. Try putting it just inside the hole pointed at the beater. Your tuning and muffling are FAR FAR more important than mic placement. I can toss mine in and get a good sound wherever.

Sennheiser MD421 on the floor tom; it's a no-brainer. Try the different roll-off patterns if you like, but I like it all the way over to "M" to get the bass. I can roll it off later at mixdown.

If you've only got one tom, put the SM57 on the top. I do the same miking as the snare, except I point it about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way into the drum instead of 1/2 (in the middle). This gets more resonance and tone than attack.

Try putting the PG58 underneath the snare and flipping the phase. If you like the additional snare sound, keep it. If not, don't use it. It's your tastes.

I'd use the ribbon as a room mic. Have someone play the drums and walk around the room until you find a spot where it sounds cool. Usually for me this is about 4 to 6 feet from the ground, about 4 to 8 feet out from the kit, and kind of aimed at the snare/kick. If that other mic has a similar sound, you can space them way out and get stereo room mics. Just keep in mind the 3:1 rule and check for phase issues. For rock stuff I like to compress the hell out of these mics and toss a little hint of distortion on them and mix them real low. It's kind of like parallel compression mixed with reverb.

You've got some great mics; if you can't get a good sound, it's either the kit or the drummer.

 

[scrubs]

If it sound bad with those mics, you should turn your attention to the tuning of the set, and placement of the mics.

Yup. Don't forget room acoustics, either. Those are solid mics, and the 4-mic technique is fine, so I suspect your problem is elsewhere.

 

[jeff5xo]

Based on popular choices on this board and elsewhere (since the only mic in your list that I have used is the SM57), I would do:

D112 on kick, 201 on snare, SM57 on rack tom, MD421 on floor tom, and AT4040s as overheads

Or

D112 on kick, 201 on snare, 57 on rack tom, 421 on floor tom, and an M-S setup with an AT4040 as the Mid and the Reslo (I'm assuming its a figure eight) as the Side.

Then I would sell the 57 and buy a Sennheiser e609 Silver and put that on the rack tom instead.

IMO, this is the most solid suggestion here. You can try to re-amp your drums as stated above, however if you don't get a good sound going to tape, you'll just be re-recording bad sounding drums with ambience.

Why don't you describe to us what you're not liking about the sound you've achieved so far. It sounds to me like you have good enough equiptment. How good are the drums, the player, and the room you're recording in?