please critique, 1st submission

ziggy!

Someone call Bowie and tell him we found his stand-in!!!

Song sounds great....I dig the drums....very soft and subtle....but they keep it all rolling.

Really a nice song.
 
I thought of the moody blues. I really like the song. Vocals carry it. Thought the band / music was not very tight at times. But I like everything that was going on real well. I'd be curious to know the signal chain for the electric guitar. And the drums..

Really nice sound. Creative chord progressions
 
Wow, this is great! Thanks for the quick responses. I've never hung out here much due to the long download times, but I've recently started downloading while surfing so I hope to be here more.

Kormaniac: Several people have told me Bowie. Is it the voice? The arrangement?

The drummer has a great style, I think. The song started as an acoustic soft thing, but I wanted to try to make it rock a bit. I think the drums really made the difference. He only heard it maybe 3 or 4 times and laid this down.

Kjam, it does go off a bit at times, esp. at the bridge/solo section. I started by recording acoustic guitar to a click in Logic. I knew it wasn't quite perfect, but the drummer and I just wanted to get the song worked out. It started as just a rough draft, but everything turned out pretty good in the end so we're not too incredibly anxious to redo it just yet.


Thanks for the compliment Sabbath. Coming from you, that means alot!

The electric guitar is a Guild Bluesbird bridge pickup through a POD, I think it's the "Brit High Gain" setting, to a Delta 1010, to Logic, where "Platinum Reverb" plug-in has been applied.

The drums are Roland TD-6, Delta 1010, Logic. No plug-ins were applied, but we did do some tweaking inside the TD-6.

Thanks!
 
Enjoyed it ....

I'm hearing Moody Blues as well. Good tune. I assume it's an original (?).

As pointed out by someone earlier, a few tempo problems around 2:10.

The vocal sits nicely in the mix.

The start of the song starts abruptly (almost as if it's been cut off). Intentional? Additionally, I thought the acoustic sounded very boxy during the intro - but, strangely, it works well in the mix. Biggest improvement would be to clean up that intro. It really threw me at first, but you recovered quickly.

Good call on the drum arrangement. It's exactly what this song calls for. I also like where you have it placed in the mix.

I listen to a CD in my car of "independent" songs/mixes from this board and this definitely makes the cut.

Nice job.

BPOCO
 
stardust

Yeah ap....the vocals reminded me of Bowie right away....really nice voice ya got.
Its unique....and really adds to the feel of the song.
 
Another vote for Moody Blues.

Nice song.....nice singing.....a few loose spots, as you already know,..........too much of whatever fx you have on the voice.

Nice work.....submit more please.
 
I haven't read the other replies...so I may repeat.

First...COOL SONG!!!!!!!

Second - something about the mix is bugging the crap out of me, but this is one of those that I just cannot articulate. The best word that describes it for me is "blurry." I do like where you have the vocal mixwise, but it might stand out even more if you cut the verb on it a bit. Maybe it's the guitars (distorted gits) that are bugging me, but...God, I hate even posting when I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. I don't like the mix...LOL. I wish I could be more helpful.

Too many lows, maybe???

I'll read the rest of the replies now to see how stupid I am.

Oh yeah, lastly ... COOL SONG!!!!!!!
 
I agree with Chris. This is a fantastic song, but the mix isn't presenting it as well as it could. Hopefully there will be more tips for ya. But here's some of what I'm hearing.

Cymbals are a bit loud, and harsh. I would cut some high end (5K?) I'd like to hear a more defined bass line....boost some 500Hz there maybe?
I personally would like to hear that electric up about 1.5-2 dB as well.
Basicaally this mix seems to focus on 2 things. The vocal-that's fine. And the keyboard. I personally would bring out the non-synth stuff a bit more.

Someone else might have more for ya, but this is a great great song. Great vibe and moves nicely...I'm a 3/4 freak myself, so I like the waltzing 3's you've got going here. And a memorable vocal melody too. Good job!

Edit: Disclaimer: I should add that I've been recording a heavy-ish new song tonight and I'm not using a spectrum analyzer, so I could be off.
 
Upon further reflection, I totally agree with everything the SlUice guy said...(even though he hasn't posted a pic in the Cave, yet :mad: ).

Synth, too loud. Gits, not loud enough... Man, that Sluice. Top Notch. (now post your pic)...:D
 
I listened before reading the other comments, and came up with mostly the same stuff - Moodys, with a bit of ELP (especially L & P) and Bowie.

Excellent song.

I'm listening on my crap work speakers, so take my mix comments with many grains of salt:

You're mostly doing the right thing with the mellotronish string line - but if you've got the tracks, I'd rerecord as single note lines - the string illusion vaporizes every time an extra note is added. And I'd stay away from full chords or triads with that sound - it's very fat and doesn't need more than one or two notes.

Your lead guitar is mixed a bit low, and also sounds very distant, due to the reverb. The reverb and/or echo on your voice is fine - a good effect for that style - but I'd drop the current approach on the guitar effects, and try to get them in line with the rest of the mix, either the wet vocals or the relatively dry rhythm section.

I'd vary the drum turnarounds a bit more - if you're using loops, do some slicing, and/or use the turnaround loop a bit less - too much of the same thing, and it calls attention to itself too.

Again, some of what I'm hearing may be my $12.95 speakers bringing something out that isn't there, or missong something that is.

A great piece, and a real heart tugger. I wrote a song a few years back for the funeral of a friend's baby son, so I've been there, sorta. That was a hard one to get through.
 
I like the song. It does remind me of the Moody Blues.
Im getting a lot of bottom boom and some intermittant distortion. The mix needs some TLC.. Great vocals.
Myx
 
Nice tune, a little muddy

Nice song, the vocals are great an i think they sit nicely. I THOUGHT THE DRUMS WERE A LITTLE BURIED AND THE GUITARS WERE KINDA LOW, BUT A VERY NICE SOUND ON EVERYTHING. Damn caps button, anywho cool song. MAYBE A BIT MUDDY. But really cool indeed!
 
I liked the song. Good job.

The vocal was good. It had a nice feel to it.

The performance did get a little loose in a couple of spots.

The mix sounded a little muddy to me. Not terribly so, but it seemed like everything was kind of crowded together in the stereo spectrum toward the middle. But then again, I'm pretty new at this so I could be all wet. :)

Very nice song as I listen to it again.
 
Mr. Bowie?

Mint!Your contribution to this forum is appretiated and welcome.Very refreshing song.Bring up the rythm guitar and drums a little.keys too loud.Vocals are awsome!!!Heartfelt and thoughtful lyrical composition.Sorry for your loss .The person who inspired this song is now immortalized and has now been able to touch all who listen here.Good song.Good thread.Peace...
 
My thoughts on the aforementioned "blurriness" ....

AP -

Are you using compression anywhere? I think the blurriness that Chrisharris had mentioned earlier is because everything is sitting back in the mix. The vocal is more upfront, but the reverb makes it sound more distant than it is.

It has a 60's mix feel to it. Probably adding to the Moody Blues feel I'm hearing.

This song sounds better at higher volumes. Too low of a volume and it does get blurry.

Nevertheless, I still like the song and recording.

BPOCO
 
Bullyhill, Myx62, and others, thanks for the positive vocal comments. I needed a confidence booster right now.

Lt. Bob, I am honored, sir! Yeah, I wanted the vox loud enough to hear the lyrics, but then it didn't sit well. So I added reverb, but then....

Chris, thanks for posting. Even if you don't know the solution, it helps to know you think somethings not right. I know exactly how you feel. I'm there 90% of the time.

SLuiCe, I didn't notice the cymbols. I'll have to check that out. Do you think the distorted power chord part, or just the lead lines should come up? I was thinking the same thing about the strings being too loud.

dafduc, very interesting point about the strings. I have a hard time finding string patches I like. Maybe it's because I try to play them like a guitar. Doh!

The drums are a TD-6 module, but a live drummer. He only played it a few times before recording, and this is the first and only take. He thought he overplayed, but I loved it. I didn't notice the redundant turnarounds, but then I'm not as particular about drums as I should be. When he reads this, he's gonna kick my ass for not letting him rerecord it. He's got about 20 lbs. on me.

Analytical Man, another vote for louder guitars. Hmmm....

Jagular, I always wondered what those "pan" knobs do! LOL.

W.I.S.C. and dafduc, thanks for the comments on the lyrics. I always wonder if the words mean anything to anyone else. Very nice to know someone else gets it.

Should the power chord part, or just the lead lines come up?

Damn, great feedback! Thank you, thank you, thank you.
 
My .00002 cents

Hey ap! GREAT to see you posting up some work.

First of all I listened to the "lo-fi" version and then downloaded the "hi-fi" version... WORLD of difference! I mean like night and day. The lo-fi version should be taken completely off.

Ok, N-E-Wayz... I'll talk about individual performances later. First I want to go ahead and sink into the mixing "problems" I detect.

Drums:
The drums absolutely HAVE to be more aggressivly placed in the stereo field. Otherwise they feel like fake drums. Pan the high hat 1/8 to 1/4 way to the right. Pan the ride cymbal 1/4 to the left, then pan the tom drums in accordance with their position in reality. (as if you were looking AT the drums NOT sitting behind them.)
Also the crash cymbal(s) is the weakest audible link in the drum sound. During the pushing chorus the drummer is hitting the crash cymbal on every down beat to drive the song. The idea is good, but the cymbal(s) should be panned at least 1/8 to the right and left and vary the cymbal crashes in a kind of random patern to simulate each crash as if it came from a real drummers hand. (Tip: No drummer hits the same crash cymbal each time, it gets boring to hear and to play).
Keep the kick dead center, and pan the snare just a hair to the right. Experiment with taking a little high out of the cymbals or maybe boosting the lows to low mids to bring out some ballsy-ness. I would also put a reverb on just the cymbals to help extend them out and fill in some sonic thin spots with a warm extended cymbal crash.

Guitar:
If you are going to play a part... the PLAY IT! There are some moments when the electric guitar first comes in where the supporting notes sound a bit "shy". Bring up the electric guitar in the mix. Some guitar players are shy about doing that because they think that other guitar players will somehow judge their "shitty playing". That is all bullshit. If you wrote it then let's HEAR it!

Vocals:
They are fine... don't touch them. Except you might think about later doubling up and singing the exact same thing on the chorus and try your best to deliver the EXACT same performance and then pan one HARD left and the other HARD right. This is how people get that THICK full sound on choruses. (i.e. Kurt Cobain on Smells Like Teen Spirit)

Keys:
I come from the less is more point of view. I agree that single note chords with not so many notes makes for a more relaistic and "friendly sound". You are not trying to have people believe that you have a 100 piece Vienna orchestra in your living room, that would be huge, impersonal, and unfriendly. I think that a three piece chamber music orchestra is more what this song needs. And remember... PAN PAN PAN... Dead center is usually just that DEAD! Center is only for vocals in my opinion.

Now that I have listed all the things that I found wrong... I will go ahead and say that only an anal retentive wanna-be audio engineer like myself would actually find all these things wrong with it if it came on the radio. It is a solid recording. Well performed instruments, well chosen effects, and just an over all good effort. The lyrics keep the song out of my style. I try to stay away from words like "embrace" and "always" and "I long to...". I have no idea if the song is for real autobiographical as in it really happened to you. If so, then forgive my insensitivity.

Good song. Over-all I give it a 9 on a 10 scale after it has been cleaned up and panned around the stero field a little more!

Good job AP!
 
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