Playback is fine but it won't record

tripoli

New member
I have an old Revere reel to reel that was working fine a year ago. It quit playing the old tape that was on it. I cleaned the heads with isopropyl alcohol and replaced the tape with new old stock. It played the tape back fine but would not record. The mic input works fine. I was hoping that someone might be able to direct me to a problem I can fix. I'm hoping it is something as simple as demagnetizing the heads. I have no idea where to find a new head for this thing as it is a 50's era machine. Any help would be greatly appreciated because this thing sounds amazing when working.
Thanks, Trip
 
You may have the machine calibrated incorrectly for the type of tape you are using. Try using different types of tape first to see if this is the problem, or get ahold of a calibration tape if possible and check with an oscilloscope. There is much information about this process here, available via the search function.
Hope this is helpful.
 
tripoli said:
I have an old Revere reel to reel that was working fine a year ago. It quit playing the old tape that was on it. I cleaned the heads with isopropyl alcohol and replaced the tape with new old stock. It played the tape back fine but would not record. The mic input works fine. I was hoping that someone might be able to direct me to a problem I can fix. I'm hoping it is something as simple as demagnetizing the heads. I have no idea where to find a new head for this thing as it is a 50's era machine. Any help would be greatly appreciated because this thing sounds amazing when working.
Thanks, Trip

Electronics don't go "bad" in a year of storage. However, relays (mechanical) do. You need a schematic or route around the electronics and find these relays (if it has them). If it has relays, you can bet they are dirty and not allowing the play/record path to change.

Really the onpl other thing that could go wrong is the bias oscillator could have died. I had this happen on my deck. This is easy to find with a schematic and o-scope.

Good Luck.
 
So it could be tape thickness? Does anyone know what the average 1/4" tape thickness was in the early 50's?
Thanx
 
MCI2424 said:
Electronics don't go "bad" in a year of storage. However, relays (mechanical) do. You need a schematic or route around the electronics and find these relays (if it has them). If it has relays, you can bet they are dirty and not allowing the play/record path to change.

Really the onpl other thing that could go wrong is the bias oscillator could have died. I had this happen on my deck. This is easy to find with a schematic and o-scope.

Good Luck.

It didn't just "go bad " it gradually quit playing back the tape that was on it. It just kept getting progressively quieter until it was finally inaudible. When I replaced the tape it played back fine and erased everything. It would not record anything when I tried. But the tape I replaced it with was quite a bit newer. If it sounds like a calibration issue it doesn't have the amount of adjustments of the newer machines and I'd be willing to bet that schematics are all but impossible to find. Is there anyway this is a demagnetizing issue?
 
tripoli said:
It didn't just "go bad " it gradually quit playing back the tape that was on it. It just kept getting progressively quieter until it was finally inaudible. When I replaced the tape it played back fine and erased everything. It would not record anything when I tried. But the tape I replaced it with was quite a bit newer. If it sounds like a calibration issue it doesn't have the amount of adjustments of the newer machines and I'd be willing to bet that schematics are all but impossible to find. Is there anyway this is a demagnetizing issue?


Wow. If the erase function works, then you have a signal path problem to the heads.


No, it is not a demag issue.
 
MCI2424 said:
Wow. If the erase function works, then you have a signal path problem to the heads.


No, it is not a demag issue.
Should this be a problem in the wiring or like a board of some sort? Any direction on problem solving?(loose wires or dusty connections etc.)
Thanx again guys for being patient and thanx for the info
 
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I just opened this thing up to check it out and couldn't find any loose connections. I definitely found some dirty ones though: ) Anyway I was wondering if the head had "sticky shed" would this hinder the record function and not the erase function? Also this thing runs on tube power so I was wondering if there might be a correlation between a possible blown tube and the record function as it gradually quit recording previously?
Thanks for any help or suggestions.
 
Sounds like a cool deck!

In reference to "sticky shed" -- tapes are the only things that can have sticky shed. This happens when the oxide of the tape (the brown stuff that touches the heads) flakes off and gums up, leaving behind a nice brown coating on your heads and tape guides. As long as you clean up the mess after playing a shedding tape, you should be in the clear as long as you replace the tape with a better/newer one that doesn't shed.

Is this machine a 2-head, or a 3-head deck? (erase, record, repro, or just erase and record head?)

If it's a 3-head deck just double check that the record head is completely clean. Also, check the wear on the head. If you see a noticeable "gap" down one, or both tracks, the head is shot. Look here for reference photos:

http://www.analogrules.com/badheads.html

Since this does appear to be a tube-type machine, it may be wise to replace all of the tubes. This will give your working components better performance, and may actually fix the record problem if, indeed, a bad tube was the issue.

Tubes can be hard to find, and pricey, so you may want to replace only the shot tubes. I'm not pretending to be an expert on tube electronics, but I believe that if a tube glows blue instead of yellowish-orange, it's either shot, or going bad. SO turn the thing on, let the tubes warm up, and watch the glow colors to track down suspicious tubes.

As far as relay are concerned, if your deck has them, check them out. If you're not familiar with relays, they basically are enclosed mechanical switches that switch signal or voltages. They generally make an audible "click" when they're switching. Sometimes relays get stuck, and just don't switch, either because the switching voltage is too low, or because the internal workings are oxidized, and are stuck. So that could also be a problem.

If you have a soldering iron handy, you may want to reheat some soldering joints, as cold soldered joints can be a problem. Just get the soldering iron fully heated up, and touch it to a solder joint for about half a second or so, just long enough to melt the solder, and re-seal the joint when you lift the iron off of it.

Another thing to look for, internally, is dry capacitors. Electrolytic capacitors are usually the culprits, and if you see one that looks like it's bulging out on the top side, that's an instant red flag -- get the specs of that cap and replace it asap. (NOTE: only electrolytic caps do this. Ceramic disk caps are generally fine for hundreds of years at a time.)

Hope that helped. Good luck!
 
Build ups of dirt on heads and guides can definitely contribute to signal's weakening and in some extreme cases, making signals disappear all together.

Sometimes it takes something stronger then just isopropyl alcohol and polite degrees of scrubbing strength to remove hard packed on oxide. In those cases, you might need to try chemicals like Methanol along with more vigorous scrubbing pressure to completely get all the crud off the heads.

Failing tubes can also contribute to diminishing signal levels so multiple issues may need to be addressed to fix this problem.

Cheers! :)
 
It is a two head deck(Revere from early fifties) and everything seems to be working I just can't get the damn thing to record anymore.
Thanks for all the input guys I've got something to look forward to after work now.
 
It is a two head deck(Revere from early fifties) and everything seems to be working I just can't get the damn thing to record anymore.
Thanks for all the input guys I've got something to look forward to after work now.

If it erases, then the bias oscillator is working. You seem to have a record path problem. You will need to trace it from the record head out to find it.
 
Hi , Trip
First of all question: what exactly model of the machine? I may try to locate schematics or any specifics to look into.
Second. Since you open the machine, I just want to remind, just in case, that there's high LETHAL Direct Current voltage all over there. It can kill. Do NOT open it while the unit is plugged into power line. It has to be off and unplugged. Also, even if it is OFF and unplugged there still maybe some danger there.
Third. The problem may be relatively easy to fix, but it may be a challenge to locate. Without knowing the unit I would not even try to guess.
If you do not have any experience troubleshoting/fixing tube-based equipment, I would not recommend you to go in, really. If you are willing to search/read through some material, going through some basics about how tube equipment work and what is what in there, then sure go for it. My point is, that you can not and BETTER NOT try to fix this kind of equipment simply based on somebod's tip or two from a b-board.
You sure can re-place tubes, maybe clean switches contacts. It may help (or even fix the problem, if you are lucky :) ) Since you've mentioned gradual "fade out" - I would guess that you more likely have bad tube(s) problem or bad componet(s) in the supporting (relating to) the tube circuit or maybe both. The problem is that you can not know for sure if the tube is good, bad or weak just by looking at it.
Bad contacts, dirty switches/pots more likely "create" go-no-go type of trouble.
Here I've found a topic at diyAudio forum, so just for you read to see what kind of situation you may face, not to say that it is what you have, but just as example of similar trouble situation: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14961

Oh, one thing to do. :) Turn the unit off, unplug it. Pull each tube out of its socket and plug it back once or twice. It does not hurt to do and you have maby 1 chance out of 1000 that it will fix the problem :D Don't count on it, though ...
/regards
 
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