Phase issues in orchestral music

[Juanka]

Hello! I'm creating orchestral music influenced in Dark Souls or Hollow Knight, and I'm using Spitfire, BBC Orchestra Core, and Cinematic Piano libraries. Both libraries have phase issues. Even before applying any effects, they come with phase problems.

For now, one solution I found to reduce this issue, or at least prevent the meter from reaching negative numbers, is to use Ozone's Imager and sacrifice spatiality and immersion, mainly in the low frequencies. Actually i dont want this, the immersion is very important in that kind of music.

The interesting part starts here. I placed some tracks from Hollow Knight, Dark Souls, Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 in Logic, and to my surprise, this well-known music has phase problems, and indeed, when made MONO, information is lost. So, what am I missing? Should one be careful with phase only in digital or pop music? I've read a lot about the importance of phase care, but I would like to know about the "importance" of phase in orchestral music or ambient music.

Attached is a Soundcloud link to my track with phase issues. I also take this opportunity for you to provide your opinion on the final mix and master. Greetings!

 

[rob aylestone]

As a big spitfire library owner, I’ve never had ANY phase issues whatsoever.

I listened to the track on speakers and headphones and it sounds exactly right.

I smiled when you said your meter was reading negative numbers, easy solution, don’t look!

If you look at any kind of phase meter on ANY recording made with stereo techniques in acoustically live spaces, the phase errors are not errors, they’re reality. Think for a moment about the popular stereo techniques. X/Y, A/B, Blumlein and say Decca Tree. The whole thing is based on amplitude and time differences, to mimic how our ears work. People with one ear damaged don’t get phase errors, but lose localisation and space estimation. If you stand in a cathedral or cavern the phase errors are phase differences, they’re not errors or mistakes. If you own decent libraries, the need to even pan instruments diminishes, because if you pick a solo instrument from the orchestra, the phase differences automatically place it in the space. Classical or ambient music in mono does have cancellation, and that’s why broadcasters were so pleased when stereo came along. If you sit in Snape Maltings, a popular classical music venue in my area, your seat is critical. It’s a rectangular big space and if you’re unlucky, you might not be able to hear some sound sources, as they cancel.

The secret to this kind of music is never to chase mono compatibility, because it spoils the music. Your example sounds real and natural. I can’t even comment on the mix because I must accept what you decided. Nothing leaped out as wrong. If it was pop, we could say the kick was too low, or the guitar stood out because we follow convention. There isnt one for your music. Everything worked for me. Watching a phase display for me is great for spotting reduced width or a spot mic fighting with the mixed mics, but they dance all over the place and are a real mess normally. In spitfire, turning off the space mics, and using the close mics changes the display drastically, but makes the space vanish.

I hear no problem to fix.