Phantom power and Patchbays's

2

2catstew

New member
:eek: I've read the posts in this forum about not using a patchbay with your Mics but I am trying to work around this.
I have a pro studio, a Control 24 console, it has 16 Focusrite Pre's with optional power, I have manley, Neve, Universal Audio, Drammer, Summit Audio, HHB and other hi-end Mic Pre's also and a collection of Neumann, Telefunken, AKG, Sound Design, Senn's and more.
I was using samson Normalled patchbays for routing allowing me to send mics from the tracking rooms to the patchbay, from their to any pre that seemed fitting, Then to my compressors, ie Urie's, Fairchild or Summit and then into my Digi192's. This has worked well until I recently recabled with some Hotwired Magomi cables. Now I seem to be having a Phantom power conflict. I'm considering taking the Phantom off of the console to see if this fixes the problem.
I love the convience of being able to rout from either tracking room to any Pre and comp that I want.
Without having to unplug and move mic sends behind the console, (it is mounted in an Argosy console) is there any other way, without using the standard TRS patchbay?
Anyone have any suggestions that keep the flow going smoothly?
2CatStew
www.2catstudios.com
www.9livesrecords.com
 
Bear in mind that I am nowhere near an expert on this topic, and I have not personally routed mic lines through a TRS patchbay. Having said that, it seems from everything I've read that the two greatest concerns with this practice are hot patching (because in a TRS jack the cable can short the contacts briefly while plugging it in) and inadvertantly sending a phantom-powered line into a line-level input on a pre or outboard piece of gear and frying an IC or transformer or something. Someone more experienced please correct me if I'm off base here.

Assuming that those are the biggest concerns, it seems that the solutions aren't so much in the gear itself, but in using judicious care when patching cables. The risk of patching a phantom-powered line into a line in can be avoided by locating your mic bay out of the proximity of the bay with your console effects lines. Avoiding hot patching really, to the best of my knowledge, is avoided by checking and double checking that your phantom power is turned off before patching (the "measure twice, cut once" theory).

Also, your Samson bays might not be suitable for passing phantom power, as I've also read that you should strap the grounds together on a bay that is passing phantom power (although I'm not entirely aware of why...if someone can explain this it would be much appreciated). If this is the case, you could look into a bay with punchdown or solder points from eBay or Mr. Patchbay or something.

I hope this is somewhat helpful, and if anyone spots anything that is glaringly incorrect, please correct me.
 
I'm wondering now, that if I turn off the phantom power from the board, ( I don't really need it since I run all mics requiring it thru the high end pre's and then into different inputs on my system) or turn it off of the upper 8 pre's on the board, I could avoid having phantom power running thru from the board when I make my patch. I normally had it setup to where, with no front of bay insertion, the signal from the snake goes straight to the board.
If I insert in the front/top of the bay, I could rout it to an outboard Pre and compressor and then I would normally not go back to the same bay channel. I would go into a second Digi192 straight from the highend pre.
If you are not familiar with the Control24. It has 16 pre's that are not directly routed to the channel controls on the console. The channels strips are just a control surface that are routed thru software. So pre 2 does not have to be controlled thru channel 2. It can go anywhere you decide.
Thanks for the help.
I've been doing this my whole life and still have so much to learn.
 
Hey Adam,
I went to The Flight site today. great stuff. Who Is doing your keyboard work? I play in a 3 piece band myself. We are The Return, Some of my work can be found on myspace at www.myspace.com/splitnixon
www.myspace.com/thereturnlive
or you can visit my label site at www.9livesrecord.com
With a little roaming you can hear 2 of my label bands with a new release coming out Feb. 16th by Green Light, www.myspace.com/gltheband

Back about 5 or 6 years ago, Dragon helped me alot as my studio exploded with new and strange gear that I had only read about before our success. I was using a tascam 4 track. (cassette)
that grew into a tascam 8 track (Cassette)
whch morphed into a Roland VS1680 and I later married that to a digi001 to get 16 tracks at a time recording.
Then a digi002,( my first control surface)
and now a Protools HD accel 3 with 2 appogee 192 converters and a Digi 192
We have been blessed with great mics. ( I bought the Telefunken U 47 that Nora Jones used on her first Grammy album recorded at Sorcerer Sound in Manhattan along with the Manley pre they used for her vox) As we have made money, I've spent every penny and more to get better, new and vintage gear. I just picked up a fairchild 600. I don't even know for sure if it is any good. It works, but I don't know how it compares to the 660 or the 670. but I had heard it and thought it sounded good.
 
I'll help you with this & give you the correct answer once I go back to the studio tonight. I know for sure that all the studios (A-E & mobile truck) all have the mic lines running into the patch bay. I usually just patch, and then turn on phantom power. How's that 47 treating you? we have a 67 up there, and it's superb! Studio E, which is mainly for post production, also has the Control24 in there, with a 192 & appogee. I also i know that the patchbays we use are not the 1/4" TRS type or whatever. In studio A, we have a SSL 6000 console in there along with that NEVE pre, and I do know that while everything is 'eventually' routed to the patch bay, they run through a 'central' control which is basically a second patch bay inside the wall. Anyways, I'll have to get back with you on this.
 
thanks,
I wish the control 24 was easier to access the phantom power. with it in an argosy console, you have to crawl under and reach up into the back.

The 47 is sweet but needs to be handled with care. A strong vocalist will crunch it if directed straight on. I turn it off axis about 30 degrees and use 2 pop filters to get rid of the problem. A soft vocal is amazing.
I have a Neumann U67, a couple of 87's and 3 of the TL103's All have their better qualities.
We have a couple of Rode NTK's that seem to be good all around mics also.
You can check our mic closet at www.2catstudios.com The site is being revamped so it looks a bit messy.
 
great mic closet, wish I had a personal set like that man! What mic's we got at our disposal daily (I practically live at the studios) are (not updated list)

(7) AKG 451
(2) AKG C3000
(2) AT4050
(6) SM7
(2) AKG C12a
(6) AKG 414
(1) AKG C24
(1) Sony ECM-56F
(1) Audix D-1
(4) Audix D-2
(2) Crown PZM 30-D
(8) Neumann TLM 193
(4) Neumann U87
(2) Neumann U67
(2) Neumann KM85i
(1) RCA 77DX
(1) Sennheiser 441
(2) Countryman EM-101
(1) Shure SM7
(7) Shure SM57
(2) Sony ECM-989
(1) AKG D900
(6) Beyer 201
(2) Beyer Soundstar
(1) Audix D-3
(5) EV RE-20
(1) Neumann M49
(2) Neumann KM54
(1) Neumann U47
(3) Sennheiser 421
(2) Sanken CU-41
(1) Sennehiser Profi-power
 
I have a full set of audix d2's, d4's and d6's for live drums but mostly just use 57's and a d112.
that is quit a list you have available.
Is that studio up there in Cleveland? I have relatives north-west of Akron and we travel to Cleveland occasionally.
got to hit the flats every so often. lol
 
2catstew said:
I have a full set of audix d2's, d4's and d6's for live drums but mostly just use 57's and a d112.
that is quit a list you have available.
Is that studio up there in Cleveland? I have relatives north-west of Akron and we travel to Cleveland occasionally.
got to hit the flats every so often. lol
Click to expand...

There's not much left of the flats anymore. Once they took away Hooters it was all downhill from there. A developer just bought the area and is hoping bring it back to it's previous glory, we'll see how that works out.
 
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