Partitions

[peter miller]

what do you reckon'
60 gig hdd partitioned as follows

1..20 with windows for games internet etc
2..20 with windows optimized for audio
3..20 for storing audio files

does the storing partition have to have a operating system on it(my guess is it probably does)

till i can afford a heap of hard drives i'm stuck with 1

not sure what partition software to get.
i've heard p/magic is ok
there is one called masterbooter which looks good and is only i tiny little app and takes up no space,how big is partition magic anyway?

i could use fdisk but i assume it does not support dual booting
coming to think of it does p/magic support dual booting of the same platform? I know masterbooter does

 

[peter miller]

oh yeah before you say hard drives are cheap now
try buying a good quality in australia. Over $200 for a descent one and that's $200 i don't have at the moment.

One more question. What is this RAID everyone is talking about?
is it like scuzzi?

 

[Evildick]

Are you trying to run two seperate versions of Windows on the same computer?What Windows OS are you going to use. You can dual boot just about anything you want, depending on how much time you want to spend learning about it. Your partition sizes look pretty good/normal and shouldn't be a problem.

RAID is a method of using multiple drives to store the same amount of data.

RAID-0 (Striping)- uses two drives, alternating the writes between the two so that you have faster disk access. You get to take full advantage of both drives operating at the same time doubling your data throughput theoretically. The bad thing is, if one drive goes bad, all your data is lost because half of a file will be stored on one drive and half on the other. You lose one half, you can no longer make the whole file. (popular for high performance) Requires 2 HD's

RAID-1(mirror)-Copies the same data to two seperate drives, making a copy. In the event that a drive fails, you have an exact backup with no data loss. (popular with network servers) Requires 2 HD's

RAID-0+1 (striping and mirror) - combines the properties of both the above. Requires 4 HD's

Span JBOD - This will take a number of drives and make them all appear to one giant drive.

SCSI is a means of data transfer that is normally compared to IDE drives. Therefore you may have a SCSI RAID or an IDE RAID configuration. With IDE your limited to 2 drives per ribbon cable. With SCSI, you can have up to 7 drives on the same cable.

This should get you started. Answer the above questions and I'll try to help you out.

Dick

 

[peter miller]

thanks for the reply.
I'm using 98se. mainly because my soundcard does not support xp yet.But no doubt soon will.
i was gonna practice all this partition stuff on an old hard drive i have. then i can back my newer one and 'hook right in'
..more confidently.
Masterbooter is about 850kb in size
isn't p/magic quite a large application.what else is out there ?
does the storage partition have a operating sytem on it?
oh yeah i'm using IDE. 7200 rpm segate barraccuda and it's a very quiet drive.

 

[Evildick]

As long as your sticking with windows, fdisk should work just fine. You may want to update to a more recent version that recognizes drives greater than 64MB's though. Here is your answer in a nutshell.

You will have a primary partition which has Win98se will be your primary partition that you boot from. This is where the OS info goes if you choose to place it there(see MBR below). Form there, you can place any other data that you have on the other partitions as you choose. My personal experience has been to place all "core" programs on the partition where Windows resides i.e.(Windows, Office,Norton,SONAR, drivers). You can then place your audio work files and game files on seperate partitions depending on how you want them sorted.

WinXp along with Win2k give you the option of whether you want to set your computer up for dual boot when you install. This is where you would choose an emtpy partition to install the new OS. Then the next time you boot up, prior to the OS loading, you can choose which one you want to use. I have done this with both WinXP and Win2k Pro with no problems.

The information that decides what OS's are on your computer reside in the MBR (master boot record). You really don't need Partition Magic although it is helpful. It allows you to move and resize partitions without having to reformat the drive.

The MBR will reside on your main boot drive. However, the actual OS can reside on any drive you specify when it gives you the option of where to install. I know this info is fragmented so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Dick

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

Hi Peter,

Partition Magic is a great program for use when you have data already in place. Fdisk can be a verb - "I couldn't fix it so I fdisked it and started over." My understanding is that when you run Fdisk you essentially do just that - wipe it clean and start again. PM will copy and move data non-destructively so that you can resize/add/delete partitions at will. Of course it takes longer to process the tasks if there is a lot of data to move but playing with partitions is not something you do on a daily basis. Partition Magic is also somewhat pricey. Size should not be an issue - if it is check out tinyapps.org. This is a collection of very small, mostly free programs. There are a couple of partition tools there but I've never used them so you're on your own. (I do use regcleaner - real slick registry tool and free as well!)

As a follow up on Evildick's points about partition uses I have found this style useful. A small primary, say 2 gig, for OS and system tools. A second primary for dual boot if you want to go that route-same size. (If you go dual boot you will want Boot Manager. This prog ships with PM - or used to anyway - and gives you the option on startup of which primary partition/OS to use. Once you're in, your computer will not see the other primary partition.) You then want a medium size partition for apps. Music programs for my DAW, Office and whatnot for the family machine. Then a larger partition for working data and another for backups. With a multi use machine like you propose ie. Gaming, Internet and Music you could easily wind up with 5 or 6 partitions on the one drive. Might get a little confusing. Most people would advise you to keep the music on it's own machine but that's not always possible and beside the point anyway.

The real story here is why partition at all and the answer has nothing to do with speed of operation (although it does help with organization.) To get the true benefit of partitioning you will want another program like Drive Image (also by Powerquest) or Norton Ghost. When you set up your OS and everything is working fine you take a "snapshot" of it. Save it on your backup partition, AND burn it to cd. Then, if you download/install a file/program/virus? that screws everything up you just pop in your known good picture of the way things were before and you're back up and running in minutes. That's the way I have my machines set up and while I haven't had to save my own ass yet - I know I can if I need to. Do that anytime you add a program and do it for each partition and you've got a pretty failsafe way to avoid disaster.

My .02, hope it's helpful.

lou

 

[peter miller]

thanks.
I tried partitioning on an old 5400 16 g drive that i had.I thought i should practice on something that would not matter if i stuffed it.
I sure did stuff it
I was using masterbooter (i think emeric uses it)
i partitioned it ok but screwed up with the dual boot app.
not to worry nothing there to lose.
I need some diagrams and insructions when i'm sing stuff like that. I do have norton ghost but never tried it yet.
i did not back up the boot record that i should have
I'll work it out though.thnks for the input

 

[Emeric]

I still have this up on the web if it is of any use to you Peter Miller.

www.sigmacomputers.on.ca/dualboot.html

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

Hi Emeric,

Very nice guide. I've had Partition Magic since before I built my DAW so other than first setting up the machine I've never used Fdisk. Also, since the DAW is music only, I hadn't thought of two OS configurations, application dependent. I set up a second primary partition so I could try out W2K or XP on the DAW (I'm using 98se). Anyway, good info. Thanks.

lou

 

[peter miller]

thanks emeric, I appreciate that site.I'm gonna print it off and have a go
P/magic is $149 here 40 gig hdd 7200 is $180 .P/magic s way over priced.(for me anyway)and the unregistered version of masterbooter is free.good for 3 partitions i believe or $20 US to register it ,thats about $40 aus

 

[RWhite]

Seems like your questions have been pretty much answered. I'll just add that I have been using Partition Magic for awhile, it is a nice program. But certainly not the only way to do what you want.

 

[peter miller]

hey emeric & anyone else for that matter
I got it all working except for a slight problem(using masterbooter)
Dual booted ok except-
I have
1. C DRIVE[WITH WINDOWS-AUDIO]-partition
2.D DRIVE[WITH WINDOWS-INTERNET]-partition
3. E DRIVE[DATA ONLY]-partition
4.F DRIVE[CD DRIVE]

SHOULD NOT I HAVE ONLY THE FOLLOWING
1.C DRIVE[WINDOWS-AUDIO] Or internet depending on boot choice
2.D DRIVE[DATA ONLY]
3.E DRIVE[CD DRIVE]

Somewhere in the process E drive moved to F
and C & E are recognized in both boots regardless.
I made sure i loaded both windows up with different apps but both were identical.
When loading the second windows it did give me a choice
C,D or E .it checked through them all.

If i understand correctly it should the choice should only be C & maybe E drive.
Gee i hope i made it clear.
I found on the masterbooter home page a link to creating/moving & resizing Partitions without loing data. I do believe they are free ware!



Maybr there is a limitations along this line using the shareware version of masterbooter

 

[Emeric]

There is an option that allows you to hide the inactive partitions that have the operating system installed on.

All it is doing is reassigning C to D or D to C, depending on which OS instance you decided to boot to.

So, if you get your startup menu:

1. Internet
2. Recording

If you pick option 1, than that partition is C: and the other OS partition is D:

If you pick option 2, than that partion becomes C: and the other OS partition becomes D:

As I said, there is a way of 'hiding' it, so that you will only see, C:, D:, and E:. I've havn't really found this to be of any great use though. Sometimes I'll be surfing the internet and download something to C:. Boot to my recording partition and want to grab that file from there. Sometimes I run out of space on my audio drive and move a song folder from there, to the inactive OS partition.


---------

After re-reading your post, I think you made a mistake when you installed your second OS, and your dual boot setup is not working correctly. Especially note step '7'.

Quick 12 steps with limited details:

1. Boot with the boot disk that has efdisk.exe, mrbooter.exe, format.com and CD-Drivers if needed.

2. Efdisk /mbr <enter> Setup your partition sizes, reboot with floppy and format both C and D. Format c: /s <enter>, then Format D: /s <enter>

3. Efdisk /mbr . Hide one partition 'H', make one bootable 'spacebar', F10, save, reboot without floppy.

4. You should only have a C drive now. From the A: prompt, type cd D: <enter> 'invalid drive specification' is what you should get. Install your cd rom drivers using the 'cd setup' thing.

5. Reboot. Test again, you should only have C: and E: (your cd-rom).

6. Install windows on c: Windows should give you the option of C: only if you hid the other partitition properly.

7: Reboot with bootdisk. Efdisk /mbr. Hide the partition you just installed windows on, make the other partition active 'spacebar' and unhidden 'h' (it probably already is not hidden), F10 save exit. Reboot without floppy.

8. You should once again, only have c: drive. Test this. Install your CD rom drivers using the CD Setup thing. Reboot without floppy.

9. You should have C and D (cd-rom). Test this. C should be blank as well. Your previous install of windows should not be accesable in any way.

10. Install Windows on this partition.

11. reboot with floppy, run mrbooter.exe, setup your boot menu names etc. save, exit, reboot without floppy.

12. should be working, hopefully.

I think where you may have mixed up is in the 'hiding' of partitions when doing the second install of windows.


Being able to 'see' both OS partitions is not a problem. But when you get that boot menu and boot to either operating system they should be 100% unique and isolated as far as programs installed, hardware profiles and registry etc.

 

[peter miller]

Thanks emeric I fixed up the problem.
I did not hide the partitions correctly.
i can see the asvantage of having the other OS within view as i often download demo ,freeware etc etc and to be able to grab it from the unused OS would be very practical.Who needs modems etc sitting in their DAW if it can be avoided
I had a per concieved picture of it in my mind.I did not expect to see the other OS.

GEEE it took me a while
But now i know how to do it i can attack my real drive

I downloaded some apps from nagy's site that enable one to partition etc 'on the fly'. I have not tried them though. But i'll stuff around on the old drive to see how thay work
thanks for the input

 

[mastahnke]

Why don't you use both HDs? The 16 gig would be fine for apps or non-audio storage and then use the 60 gig as audio drive. Seperate drive is much faster than seperate partititions.

--MIKE

 

[peter miller]

mastahnke- I am going to use it but it is noisey and 5400 rpm.
I will use it for downloaded mp3's and other not so important stuff.

EMERIC- i got every thing up and running .couple little bugs though!!
1.C is internet(or recording depending on boot)
2. D is my old 5400 hdd
3.E is recording(or internet)
4.F is my big partition for audio files
5.G is cdrom drive.

Somehow D[should be F] put itself in the middle or 'internet' & 'recording'. Doesn't seem to worry though.

when playing a game on 'internet' drive where the cd is required it does not seem to pick it up,this is only in games though.reads and loads apps etc fine.

One other little bug is windows keeps asking for password every time it loads even though i don't use pass word.
I've tried to find out how to stop it runing at start up but can't find anything.
Have you had this with masterbooter before??
has it got something to do with naming partitions?
Can i override it some how? Could it be a bios thing[doubt it though]
Cheers


oh yeah D[my old drive] is on secondry ide after cdrom drive.it is set as slave.

 

[Emeric]

When prompted for a password when installing 98, did you hit ok, or cancel? This is windows thing, not related to masterbooter. There is a way of removing this but cant remember offhand.

After re-reading this thread, in particuliar mastahnke pointing this out.

There is a better of doing this, but would require you to start over.

Use the 60GB drive for audio data, use the 5400RPM drive for your the operating system(s), leave the Audio Data drive as one big partition.

Put the 60GB as secondary master, put the CD-ROM as primary slave along with the 5400RPM drive.

Now that your familiar with masterbooter, should take no time at all.

 

[peter miller]

i managed to fix it all up
Struth!! I fixed it all up by accident though!!
so a 5400 rpm will run apps ok. I'll keep it the way it is for a while and then try it later on.
Thanks everyone for the advice ,Everything is working ok now
Masterbooter is quite is once done a couple of times